FreddieN wrote:

> Firstly lets clarify what you just said. I am "anti-Chinese".

Is that an admission, or are you asking me for evidence?

> I am not especially "anti-foreigner in the US".

Is this a partial admission?

> I did use that an an example and frankly the jury is still out on this as far
> as my personal opinion is concerned. But you needed to be here in the US from
> before 911 to see just how much the US government and the publics attitude
> has changed towards not only illedgal aliens but even legal aliens as well.

In Iraq, near 100% of criminals, terrorists or insurgents are Iraqi, or at
least Middle Eastern or Muslim. It still has not excused US troops from
treatment of other locals or detainees not accused of offenses, which is why as
you note, US authorities making openly anti-black statements in mass media, or
promoting anti-black campaigns as Japanese may do against Chinese, would not
fly. Prejudice against black people is already bad enough. The same goes for
other minorities or foreigners, or those who belong to a different religion.

The US surely needs to do more to patrol its borders and transportation links
against illegal entry, smuggling and terrorist attacks. But it's no reason to
start treating people in the US like Israel treats Palestinians or the way
Iraqis are treated.

> Americans have for years complained about Japans immigration authorities.
> Well we are now photographing and fingerprinting all visitors to the US even
> tourists. Soon we will be forcing other countries to re-issue their passports
> containing biometric data. The Japanese government, as far as I am aware, has
> done nothing to this extent.

You are correct that the Japanese despite all complaints about xenophobia are
not being as strict as the US right now. I much prefer being a foreigner in
Japan, even an Asian looking one, to being black or Middle Eastern in the US.
Even how Japan holds people claiming to be refugees or their tales of prison
abuses are not as bad as the American extremes.

Still no excuse, at least when against people not guilty or not even accused of
crime, which is why I no longer use or tolerate the your country is worse than
ours, or fix your country before accusing ours, argument.

> First lets be clear on who or what I am against. I am against the Chinese
> both in and out of China who flood the internet with anti-Japanese diatribe,
> much of it going beyond any sort of rational argument but rather a brainless
> repetitive dribble. BTW, a great majority of these posters also display
> anti-US sentiment as well. I have nothing against the many Chinese, withion
> China, Hong Kong, Taiwan or anywhere in the world who are against the CCP and
> it's oppression of individual freedom.

All right. And what about the greater number of Chinese people who accept their
forms of government or politics, but are not the ones expressing hate against
the US or Japan?

For example:

http://tinyurl.com/5nlyo

Forgiveness, Apology, Compensation

Perhaps because a Chinese saying, " Repay Evil with Virtue ", many Chinese say
- " We can Forgive, but never Forget ".

However, as Archbishop Desmond M. Tutu, 1984 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate, has
pointed out, "We can only forgive what we know". He had also provided foreword
in the book The Rape of Nanking: An Undeniable History in Photographs.

Haruki Wada, Tokyo University Professor once wrote about encountering a Chinese
farmer near Shanghai. The farmer told him, "The Japanese soldiers had come to
my village, and cut off one of my arms. Then they raped and killed my wife and
my daughter right before my eyes. But I do NOT hate Japanese people, because
they are also the victim of Japanese Imperialism, and we shall work hand in
hand to create a war-free world."

[snip]

Despite the understanding this victim of war has come to, perhaps he supports
the Chinese government.

Should we be against people like this man?

And more about my "dropping a guilt bomb on an entire country", no, that is not
my intent. I have no desire for Japanese or Americans to "hang [their heads] in
shame" for what their nation or ancestors have done or even are doing. As a
matter of fact, people should be proud of their nation, its history and its
heritage, whether they be from Japan, China, the US or North Korea.

But you can see the unprecedented means the Germans have gone to, to reclaim
their pride. Japan critics point at Germany as an example of how Japan could or
should be about WWII responsibility and compensation. We can also see how late
19th century China beggared itself for its wars, allegedly paying JAPAN and
Western powers seven times its entire annual economic output. Well the same
goes for US history and what the US and Americans could be doing to take
responsibility for its actions.

> These anti-Japanese posters, who harp on WWII and constantly talk about a
> re-militarized Japan,

Yes, to be doing nothing but is certainly a problem, the same as with those
whose priority is smearing Chinese.

What should they be talking about?

> are, working against current US policy.

Current US policy promotes a stronger Japan.

> Japan has right-wingers to be sure, just like many other countries, but the
> chances of become a militant governmet like that of WWII is slim to none.

Oh, that. That is for certain.

But does it mean the size of Japan's defense expenditures or the considerations
of some officials for Japan to have first strike capability against North
Korea, or permission for it, for example, should not be a concern?

> China today is a far far grteater threat to east asia, as they seem to have
> no hesitation in threatening others with the use of military force.

That is true. And on a smaller scale, North Korea is more dangerous than that.

So why are the US or George Bush identified as the largest threats to world
peace in international survey?

> China has invaded and occupies Tibet. And these Chinese posters still go on
> and on about "Japan being a threat". This is nothing but pure hipocracy.

Why are Chinese offenses, even greater ones, any excuse for Japanese behavior?

> I could go on and on, but thats ebough for now.
>
> > > Eric....no country teaches all of their bad history inschool textbooks.
> >
> > Which is why they should. I hold my own country and others to the standard
> I expect of Japanese, and vice versa. When I complain about Japanese history
> or treatment of foreigners in Japan, you better be sure I mean the same about
> my own country and others.
>
> Well as I said...you ought to get back here to the US and see how much has
> changed since 911.

What I see in the news or in Hawaii are quite enough.

> You could spend the rest of your life trying to bring the United States up to
> "your standards".

Which is again no excuse for the way Americans dismiss their own need for
taking responsibility for its history or current behavior.

For example, I cannot find the story even with a search of Yahoo! news
archives, but last week I read a story about how US veterans coming back from
Iraq are adjusting to life in college. One young man was talking about how
people wouldn't understand his experience, so he does not even bother talking
about it. He was once put into the situation where he was ordered to kill a
man, woman, and child with a loaded donkey, who had not obeyed hand gestures to
stop at a checkpoint, if they did not stop beyond a certain point, because they
could have had a weapon or a bomb.

Despite me appreciating his service and bravery and understanding how his life
could be at risk in Iraq at any time, he is correct that I would not understand
what he did in Iraq. For you see, being ordered or following orders to shoot
dead a man, woman and child with a donkey for not complying with orders to
stop, was not the only alternative. After hand gestures or verbal commands to
stop, how about pointing your guns and shouting at them? Or shooting into the
air? Or shooting just the man or the loaded donkey before also shooting the
woman and child?

I don't care if Iraqi insurgents or Japanese or Germans in WWII would not or
did not show the same courtesy to their victims. It is what Americans would
expect for themselves and how they should treat others. Varying Iraqi civilian
casualty counts range from 10,000 to 100,000, because of large concentrations
of civilian populations in cities bombed or attacked in search of insurgents.

What would be the American reaction to a terrorist group taking out 10,000 US
civilians, even as "collateral damage" in an attempt to take out a large
industrial or military site, or an assassination attempt on the President?

> > > We were taught that the pioneers opened up the west to development while
> occasionally exchanging hostilities with the "indians". We weren't taught
> that we massacred them, unarmed women and children, because our racial
> beliefs at the time didn't force us to consider that they were humans. We
> weren't taught that we invented scalping then claimed that it was an "indian"
> practice.
> >
> > Then your education was not as complete as mine, as I learned those things
> and others, from 7th grade.
> >
> Did it occur to you that I probably went to school much earlier thah you did?

It doesn't matter. You still weren't told.

> > > Why then Eric, did the chinese police in riot gear have to beat up those
> anti-japanese chinese people?
> >
> > Because China's is an authoritarian government, which will kill or jail its
> own people simply for protest.
>
> Protest against what Eric? Against government policy. Now can you put 2 and 2
> together?

No, because in general, Chinese protest against government policy is a good
thing, as I am sure you understand. I cannot condemn protest in China, just
because some protests are against Japanese.

> > And do you see a problem with it?
>
> No, because in both cases above, I hear alot of gripes about things that are
> going on now. It's not griping over something that happened 60-70 years ago
> and nothing can be done about it now. That's a big difference.

We cannot bring back the dead or restore the environment or a nation's
heritage, something can most certainly be done about historical wrongdoings, if
even only to offer apologies and some money, as was done to Japanese-Americans
interned in WWII, or has been done on a private basis with former comfort
women. Germany continues to make amends, and Switzerland is currently being
accused for its involvement holding Jewish assets from WWII.

Why expect anything less of Japan or the US?

> That's right. Being against current Israeli policy has nothing to do with
> the past.

Then you are more understanding than posters against me.

> If you refuse to justify the past injustice towards Jews because you happen
> to disagree with current Israeli policy, then you should be able  to
> understand why I cannot condone the current bewhavior of Chinese posters just
> because of what some members of the IJA did to some Chinese civilians in
> WWII.

It is one thing to be against negative posters, which I would certainly
support. But what do you think of Chinese who do not express hatred toward
Japan, yet are not against their authoritarian government?

> > > Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, there are alot of people out
> there who happen to agree with her?
> >
> > That is not the point. People with Japanese handles are attacked for what
> is construed as anti-Chinese comments, while that poster is not getting the
> same treatment. At least not from flij posters who would attack and ridicule
> people with Japanese handles or who claim to be Japanese. Why is it
>  acceptable or desirable to attack "Japanese" for alleged anti-Chinese or
> Japan war apologist comments, but not other posters who do not appear to be
> Japanese? Where is Ernest in all his fury, to attack you or this Aletheia
> person, the way he will pick on a Japanese man?
>
> Let me understand you here...are you suggesting that Enest and others display
> bigotry, a bias in this respect?

That is part of what over a hundred posts last week were about (in addition to
noting double standards in views of Japanese or US history) but no admissions
were made on their part. And they are notably absent criticizing anti-Chinese
comments from people with Western sounding handles now.

--
 "I'm on top of the world right now, because everyone's going to know that I
can shove more than three burgers in my mouth!"