"Austin P. So (Hae Jin)" <haejin@netinfo.ubc.ca> wrote in message
news:bdf4uc$7r7$5@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca...
> "USA" <USA@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:oW6Ka.10354$N%6.72@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
> >
> > "Austin P. So (Hae Jin)" <haejin@netinfo.ubc.ca> wrote in message
> > news:bd7gu0$34l$4@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca...
> > >
> > > "USA" <USA@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > news:cPFIa.1192$L11.207@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
>
> > Yes I can say that a certain given country, or rather it's current
> reigning
> > regime is evil.
>
> Very good. By the criteria and logic you use, WTC was an entirely
> justifiable attack according to muslim extremists...
>

No not really because I can only speak from my own point of view, as an
American.
I am not a muslim, and even if I were I don't know if I'd be an extremist,
so I can't
speak on their behalf. Hell, Pearl Harbor was perfectly justified from the
Japanese point
of view, but I can't speak for them.

> > And no, not every person in that country need be crazy.
> > A few thousand deaths of enemy combatants fighting American troops do
not
> > phase me, no.
>
> Sure...military deaths (or massacres in the case of the Iraqi army) are
> anticipated and acceptable.
>
And why do you use the word "massacres" here?

> But I was, in fact, referring to "collateral damage"...you know these
things
> that tend to get in the way called "civilians"...
>
Well if you look at WWII, Korean War and Vietnam, you'll see that the nature
of how the US conducts
wars has changed. Sure there are civilian casualties, but the numbers are
far far less than in previous
wars. Not every war needs to to have massive civilian casualties, especially
in this day and age of pin-point
targeting. The US no longer indiscriminately bombs civilian centers.
It's a shame that North Korea does not feel that way...don't you think?.

> > > > It's damn easy to be liberal when you've got nothing to lose.
> > > Sorry...that is just a load of shit.
> > No, not necessarily.
>
> Whatever...
>
> > > Having kids has had the opposite effect...it has made me more acutely
> aware
> > > of the importance of living as a community rather than in armed camps.
> It
> > > has taught me that difficult circumstances more that anything else are
> > > created by insecurities and by fear and by a refusal to accept the
> humanity
> > > of your "enemy".
>
> > And having kids did not instill any sense of desire to protect them? Now
> and
> > in the future?
> > That's strange Austion...even animals do.
>
> Yes. "Animals do". Remember that.
>
Yes "EVEN" animals do that Austin.

> > > Kay hasn't defended the KJI regime. Kay, like me, believes that the
> > current
> > > regime is not purposely starving its population. Famine has forced the
> > > regime to decide who and what are the important things to maintain.
> > >
> > Well then I am afraid we differ in our opinions. I am of the belief that
> the
> > KJI government knew damn well from the outset just what "sacrifices" the
> people were
> > going to have to make to support the Songun policy.
>
> And? Do you even understand what I just wrote?
>
> > I do not believe they could be that stupid.
> > And I'm not talking about the well to do party affiliated families in
Pyongyang either.
>
> Hey....I thought you were all into protecting yourself first..."even
animals
> do". In fact, that is what it is, isn't it? The behaviour of animals to
> protect only themselves and their livelihood.
>
> The North Korean regime believed that the military was the most important
> thing to preserve. Full stop.
>
> You can try to claim moral superiority over that choice, but that is
exactly
> the kind of behaviour that "conservatives" do according to you: close
ranks,
> look after their own skin and say screw everybody else.

Well I guess you have admitted by that statement that the NK regime KNEW
just exactly
what they were doing. So much for defending them from any blame for the
humanitarian crisis.
And thanks for your "opinion" on what conservatives "like me" think.

> > > What % of the GNP of the US is spent on military? How many people in
the
> US are starving? Are living in absolute poverty?
 > Now...imagine if 1% of that military spending were instead spent of
> social programs. Does that mean that the US is *purposely* starving it
populace
> > > because a % of it is starving?
>
> > The example you gave is meaningless because the United States can and
does
> > feed it's people while maintaing the largest military on the face of
this
> earth. It is larger than the combined military of the entire European
Union.
>
> Oh...so poverty figures are just a scheme by left-wing whackos...
>
> The *point* is that the US pursues this policy at the expense of a certain
%
> of the population.
>
> Yes, it is a matter of degrees for sure, but only because the US is more
or
> less self-reliant on its agricultural resources. And *despite* the fact
that
> it has the amount of agricultural resources at its disposal, it *still*
has
> a % of the population that is "starving".
>

Yes but they are NOT starving as result of LACK OF AVAILABLE FOOD in the
United States.
They are NOT starving because the the US economy works, the US agriculture
works, all the things
that DO NOT WORK in North Korea.

> Now in contrast, North Korea has wholly been dependent on the Soviet Bloc
> for its agricultural needs. It has *never* had the agricultural base to be
> self-sufficient. And what happens? The Soviet Bloc fell apart. And then
they
> faced 3 years of successive flooding.
>
Yes, so what does a clever regime do at that point? Should they re-think
their policies
as China did, or should they stay frozen in time as if it were still the
1950s?
China made every effort to show NK what to do, they simply refused to do so.

> All this occurred while the US and the North regarded itself as enemies at
> the brink of a conflict.
>
The time for NK to change it's relationship with the US was right after the
USSR fell apart.
NK missed that opportunity and now it is too late for them.

> So tell me...you can all talk about how great the US is, but try to
convince
> me that when push comes to shove a whole lot of people ain't gonna fall
> through the cracks is just naivete...why do you think I brought up the
1000+
> arabs? And what about the Japanese interned?
>
I'm not going to waste my time telling you that the United States is
perfect. It is not.
And there are alot of issues which need to be addressed and resolved.


> > And before you start telling me about the homeless in the US please
don't
> > forget that we are talking about starvation on a
> > humanitarian crisis scale, as in an estimated 2,000,000 people dying of
> > starvation in the 1990s.
>
> Right. Do you remember what "famine" means and what generally causes
> famines?
>
Poor economic planning, poor agricultural planning and poor luck with the
weather.

> > Finally, as far as the "threat" from Al Quaida, they are not the
> equivalent of "bellicose statements", they have already attacked thje
United States
> killing some 3,000 people.
>
> You didn't get the analogy so forget it...
>
No I saw exactly the "analogy" you were trying to create, and I clearly
showed how
it was a poor one.


> > In comparison, North Korea despite technically being in a state of war
> since 1953, hasn't actually fought any wars since then.
>
> So what?
>
> > Yet they need the Songun policy
> > for what?
>
> You're joking right?
>
Nope not joking at all. Suppose for a moment that NK did NOT have a huge
military and was NOT
pursuing nuclear weapons. Now...what is the probability that South Korea or
the US would suddenly
decide out of the blue to go invade and occupy North Korea? Zero right?
In fact, if that were the case, NKorea would be buried in aid from all of
her neighbors including
the US.

> > That policy is designed not only to defend
> > North Korea but to keep the populace under strict military control in a
> > constant state of "readiness".
>
> "Department of Homeland Security". "Red Scare". "MacCarthyism". "Orange
> alert".
>
Yea..now when have any of those programs entailed teaching kindergarten
children to bayonet an
Enemy soldier?

> > It is one of the means by which the KJI regime maintains it's power. And
> the people azre expectec to make "sacrifices" to keep that regime in
power.
> Wonderful little place, isn't it?
>
> And you guys are willling to vote people who have these expectations into
> office.
>
> Look...you are criticizing the regime for the wrong reasons. Just drop it.
>
Oh...and what pray tell are the RIGHT reasons?

> > > There are other reasons to criticize the North Korean regime, but
> accusing> them of starving their populace on purpose is asinine.
> > >
> > Nope..you just know the whole picture. Being Korean doesn't make you an
> > automatic expert on North Korea.
>
> Hello? Nor does being american...
>
> The difference is that despite ideological differences or whatever, I
regard
> them as family. So I assign a certain level of value in the lives of the
> average north Koreans (which you clearly don't) in addition to the lives
of americans and
> the rest of humanity. Afterall, didn't you say they were all brainwashed
into hating americans?
>
Well that's just wonderful Austin, you can consider then FAMILY for the rest
of your life.
And if things go south and the Artillary starts hitting Seoul and it turns
into a "Sea of Fire"
hope you still feel that way.

> > I have a need to be part of the crowd??? Funny everyone else seems to
> think
> > I am way out there on my own.
>
> Quote...Most Korean-Americans think you two are as retarded as I
> do...unquote.
>
> So...please do tell...who are these "most"?
>
The ones who do not argue on behalf of and in defense of the KJI regime.
This of course does not include you.

> > > > In the United States we are ALL Americans first. In WWII, the
> > > > Japanese-Americans made a choice.
> > >
> > > A "choice"? What "choice" did these Japanese-americans have?
> > >
> > > > Today there are Arab-Americans making a choice.
> > >
> > > What "choice" are you referring to?
> > >
> > Do I really need to spend another 15 minutes explaining this to you?
>
> You don't provide context and you expect that someone is supposed to
> understand your gibberish?
>
It is hardly gibberish.
YOU don't understand it at all because you are NOT American.
And that's fine, you don;t have to.
But don't dishonor the Americans of various ethinic backgrounds in this
country
by calling it "gibberish".

> What "choice" did arab-americans and japanese-americans make? Both were
> interned/incarcerated based on ethnicity alone. This *despite* their
> allegiance to the flag. This *despite* the fact that many JAs fought
against
> the Japanese and Germans for the US.
>

What choice do you think they made Austin?

> > Maybe not maybe yes, But the US has probably made more strides to
> eliminate
> > racism than most other countries.
>
> ROFL~!
> Austin

Oh you are laughing...well...is racial discrimination a crime under the laws
of the ROK?