In fj.life.in-japan C.Brady <ch.brady@comcastremove.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:27:31 +0000 (UTC), mtfester@netMAPSONscape.net
> wrote:

>>>>I simply do not believe the Germans were "victims" in WWII.
>>
>>> Merriam-Webster dictionary defines _victim_ as:
>>
>>That's nice; so the Germans were victims of the mean  ol' Poles.

> Gee, why confuse you with 'facts'.... 

Right; nasty ol' 'facts' like invading Poland, France, Belgium, Russia,
etc., are really confusing.

> You just blithely disregarded Webster's definition of _victim_;
> instead shifting to_ol Poles_. (Dismissing commonly accepted standards
> of terms 

Right; for example, it's a "commonly accepted standard" that the Germans
were the victims in WW II is something I willfully dismiss as nonsense
promulgated those who in all likelihood spent a good deal of their
spare time peeling bananas with their feet and picking parasites off
the more dominanant members of their immediate group.

>>If one does not believe one is a victim of one's own deedas, then one
>>deduces that the Germans were not victims, but instigators.

> I don't subscribe to the notion of collective guilt and collective

Sorry, but when nations are involved, that's the way it is. Nations
declare war against nations. Germany summarily invented reasons to 
invade a neighbor, then another, then another, swallowing them up, and
putting their people to the proverbial sword (or bullet, or barb-wire
fence, or gas-chamber...)

Indeed, the Germans were noted for not only national, but racial guilt
and did something about it. They decided that inferior peoples had
no rights, and then set several standards of what constituted
"inferior". Rounding up small children and babies, then gassing them
just for giggles does not spring to mind as behavior of a 'victim'. You,
of course, disagree, as does the emotional Ms Schelby (who feels her own
pain, but nobody else's.)

It is a "commonly accepted standard" that the people who instigate a 
war, then set about systematically exterminating civilians in areas
under their control are not "victims" when a tiny taste of their own
actions are visited upon them.

Of course, if you are consistant, you of course believe that a criminal
becomes him/herself a victim when they are punished for their misdeeds.

Just to clue you in; this is not a "commonly accepted standard"
definition of "victim".

>>> Although you may experience some personal discomfort in having to
>>> recognize that many Germans were indeed victims of a fascist political
>>
>>Although you may experience some personal discomfort in having to
>>realize the Germans were indeed the promulgators of a fascist (actually,
>>it wasn't fascist; that was a different nation), you'd be less likely to 
>>find yourself in the silly position of being a nazi apologist.
>>
>>Lemme guess; you're going to deny the Holocaust next...

> Ah, here it comes! Conjecture, supposition, and a vivid 

Oh, you mean like "he's a typical, America can do no wrong" kinda guy?

I wonder what kinda lowbrow sub-intellectual started off with something
like that?

Why, that would be you and Ms Schelby. My, that IS low.

Mike