Paul Blay wrote:
> "Ryan Ginstrom" wrote ...
>> Agnostics already claim a non-belief in god.
>
> Agnostics don't particularly _claim_.  Which I find refreshing -
> Atheists are tele-evangelist agnostics*.  The desire to trumpet one's
> (non) belief and (un)convert the masses appear to me to be defining
> points of many (non)religious attitudes.
>
> It's like the difference between people who happen not to smoke and
> NON-smokers.

I think you are referring to what I like to call apatheism. Agnostics, to
the extent that they claim to be agnostics, are claiming that you cannot
know the answer to the question about whether God exists. I'm sure there are
agnostics who like to trumpet thir agnosticism as much as some Christians
and atheists, although they are probably less compelled to do so. Many
people who claim to be agnostics are really closet atheists who either don't
understand the difference between the two or who just think agnostic sounds
better. Atheists, on the other hand, are saying that, based on the evidence
that has been presented, or lack thereof, regarding the existence of God,
they are willing to conclude that there is no God. If you want to call this
act of drawing a conclusion a leap of faith, so be it. If that is one's
position, then virtually every conclusion we draw about anything, even the
existence of protons, etc. comes down to a certain amount of faith. But I
think this is very, very different from what we mean when we use faith in a
religious context. Faith, or a willingness to accept what you are taught
without question, is considered a virtue in religion. This is quite
different from saying, "Okay, I think I've seen enough and, until something
more is presented, I'm willing to conclude xyz."

In any event, I do understand your point regarding the "evangelical"
atheists. One of the things that I dislike about groups like American
Atheists is their tendency to want to spread their own word and stamp out
religion altogether. Fighting against the incredible bias that exists in the
United States against atheists is one thing. The need to transform
Christians and everyone else into atheists is quite another.

Jeff