Eric,

Thank you for reinforcing the stereotype that I have of you as an uncultured
otaku.

You often talk of Japanese traditional culture, but apparently that is
limited to martial arts. You admit that you have limited knowledge of (and
no interest in) Japanese art, Japanese literature, Japanese cinema, and even
Japanese History.

Having a limited knowledge of Japanese arts in its various forms is not
something to normally condemn a person, but you (despite that limited
knowledge) enter a tread about Kurosawa with a vile attack on the idea of
liking the masters of Japanese cinema without first becoming completely
fluent in Japanese. You claim to be fluent, and yet it hasn't helped you in
that area, has it?

I don't know what your personal problems are, and I don't want to know, but
it sure appears that your rants can border on the Kaz-like extreme.

What is so wrong about liking the good that occasionally happens in Japanese
cinema?

in article 42161F88.B4E6E288@yahoo.co.jp, Eric Takabayashi at
etakajp@yahoo.co.jp wrote on 2/19/05 2:02 AM:

> Ernest Schaal wrote:
> 
>> Understanding the language is an advantage, but it is not enough. To
>> understand Japanese cinema, you have to see it, and plenty of it. It is far
>> better to see the works in subtitles than not at all.
> 
> Really? And on what basis do you claim to understand Japanese animation? How
> much "alien plant" porn (you have not seen the extraterrestrial, cybernetic or
> occult tentacle porn?) have you seen to make such a sweeping generalization?
> Even I do not watch alien plant porn, and "Wandering Kid: Legend of the
> Overfiend", claimed to be a milestone in naughty tentacle animation, I
> stumbled upon completely by accident (and certainly did not know what to
> expect), as some classmates were amused by the idea of a cartoon produced by
> Penthouse Magazine. "La Blue Girl" (the first of the original series) was the
> only other anime of that type that I can name ever watching.
> 
>> You have given no indication that you have seen a lot of the better Japanese
>> films,
> 
> I don't. What better Japanese films? I'd like to get some for my wife before
> we leave the country to keep her company. Mind you, she likes straight dramas,
> not jidaigeki, occult, horror, or gangster shows. She doesn't seem to like
> comedies, either. So for example, much of Itami, Kitano, or even Kurosawa are
> out.
> 
>> nor have you given any indication that you have read the better Japanese
>> literature,
> 
> I don't. Not interested. Except for the desire for Japanese to preserve
> aspects of traditional culture such as architecture or crafts, I am interested
> in modern Japan. I've said as much numerous times.
> 
>> or seen the better Japanese art. The only indication that I remember about
>> you and Japanese culture is the photos you published a while back of you
>> attacking beverage containers with a sword. (I was not impressed.)
> 
> That's not Japanese culture, and it was not a sword. It was a bowie knife made
> by a Georgia custom knife maker. Can cutting, among other things, is the way
> edges are tested in the US. Japanese cut live bamboo or rolled bundles of
> straw, with or without wooden cores.
> 
> You claim to be a lawyer licensed in two US states on early retirement from a
> career in Japan, married with two grown children, if I recall. Perhaps you own
> a home and drive a late model car, and have influential business contacts or
> friends. Perhaps you have a degree of wealth yourself.
> 
> Exactly what is it you think I think is supposed to impress you about me, and
> why should I care? What is it about you that is supposed to impress me? You
> didn't even know about what constitutes libel or slander in Japan, and you
> don't know anime.
> 
>>>> Frankly, I will admit that your Japanese skills are far superior to mine,
>>> 
>>> I have no clue what my skills are.
>> 
>> Then why all those snide remarks
> 
> What snide remarks? It is you who claimed to be some sort of beginner
> regarding Japanese language study. Thus you claiming to know about all this
> Japanese entertainment or culture is an understandable surprise. For example,
> I assumed you were being modest about your language skills. I'd be real
> interested in knowing how you could have spent so much time living and working
> in Japan, and still claiming to be a beginner. That is curiosity, not insult.
> 
>> about how I possibly couldn't understand Japanese culture by using subtitles?
> 
> I neither said nor assumed anything about you using subtitles. I was accepting
> your claim about just having started studying Japanese at face value. Silly
> me.
> 
>> So you admit that, while you understand the language,
> 
> Here's what I "claim" to understand regarding the language, also a repeat of
> posts over a number of years: one game I play is to see how long it takes a
> Japanese person to realize I am a foreigner. My record is once going perhaps
> four years (I lost track) without people reacting strangely to me or asking if
> I was foreign. On the other hand, I once went only about a week last year
> before some young cashier at McDonald's felt it necessary to slow down and
> motion putting things into a bag, when asking me if I wanted to eat in or take
> my order out.
> 
> Most recently, I was once on the phone for about 30 minutes with some
> telemarketer trying to interest me in commodities trading and investment,
> before I finally told him that I was going back to the US (my home country)
> for school, and thus did not have money to spend. He immediately put his hand
> over the receiver, and had some conversation I could not make out with some
> other man, then came back on to ask me how it was possible to have a name like
> Takabayashi Kenji (in kanji), yet be an American. I confirmed that was one of
> the names I used living in Japan, then explained. After more secretive
> discussion, a man I assume was his boss came on, to comment further on how
> unusual I seemed, and began injecting the sales pitch with what he thought to
> be English words or phrases, while I heard female voices laughing at his
> bumbling efforts in the background.
> 
> That experience was further confirmation that me being able to go unnoticed
> for years at times, while working or living in Japan is not merely because of
> my appearance. On the other hand, as at that McDonald's (I have been a regular
> for years though they know nothing about me, and do not know why that woman
> suddenly behaved that way), some people notice fairly quickly, therefore I
> must have some sort of accent that I am not able to detect myself. Perhaps I
> can go for long periods without notice, because people I encounter during that
> time are simply more polite than others.
> 
> Are you supposed to be impressed by this?
> 
> No. If someone lives in a country for 12 years, with relatives who are native
> speakers, they damned well should be able to live, work, or be entertained in
> the local language, which is also not meant as an insult to you.
> 
>> you have no clue about the Japanese non-martial arts?
> 
> Yes. Recall if you will, that I have posted a number of times over the years,
> how the last time I studied Japanese (or anything, for that matter) was in
> fall 1991, the last time I practiced writing Japanese was in 1989, and while I
> studied Japanese language for four years at university (87-91), I studied NONE
> of the composition, translation, art, or history which would have made it
> applicable for a degree (my business department did not allow double majors at
> the time, and in any case, I was only interested in understanding what was
> being said or written in the anime or manga I was interested in at the time,
> and other shallow aspects of modern culture).
> 
> By the way, here once more, is what I "claim" to know of the Japanese martial
> arts: I studied aikido from a local retired policeman in my hometown for about
> a year in 1977-78. I studied kendo at the local Buddhist temple in my hometown
> for about > a year in 1985-86. I practiced judo for about four months along
> with the children when I was made an assistant advisor for the club when I
> worked at a junior high school beginning in 1993.
> 
> Indeed. Just how is it you think that I think you should be impressed by me,
> just because I happen to (maybe) understand more Japanese language than you?
> Are you not mistaking me for other posters who did ridicule you for saying you
> were taking lessons, or for not knowing about libel or slander in Japan? I
> don't recall doing either.
> 
>> Have you visited exhibitions of ukiyoe, nihonga, sumie, modern Japanese art?
> 
> Nope. No interest whatsoever except to feel that some things like ink brush
> painting or block printing in general, look nice. And in general, I do not
> recognize the merit of most modern art unless its creation requires actual
> training or technical skill as the Renaissance masters demonstrated. Don't eat
> a pickled fetus in public, throw buckets of paint at the wall, sit your
> painted buttocks on a canvas, take photos of pools of women's urine on the
> street, make the lights in an empty room go on and off, or construct a bust of
> the Virgin Mary with elephant feces, and expect the public to appreciate it or
> the person who did it.
> 
>> Have you read any Mishima, Kawabata, Soseki, Takagi, Tanizaki?
> 
> I read a literal handful of books or short stories in English by Mishima and
> Kawabata because they were required for my world literature course at
> university. Mishima was a cliche. I liked Kawabata, though his being Japanese
> had no particular relation to the story or my liking it. I once read a short
> story by Oe in English, to my regret, though it was part of a school
> assignment. Here's the story IIRC: at a dinner party at the home of the
> administrator of a mental hospital, for some reason, located on the grounds of
> the mental hospital, some patients get loose, causing some trouble. Final
> shocking scene: a woman uses her menstrual blood for finger paint. Wow. No
> wonder Oe got the Nobel Prize. I'd like someone to tell me why using archaic
> vocabulary with infrequent punctuation makes for great literature.
> 
> I would choose recent trendy biographies or novels by the physically
> challenged or underprivileged people who made something of themselves over
> those so called classics.
> 
>> Have you even read Tale of Genji?
> 
> I have bought a few translations of Japanese classics, such as Tale of Genji
> and the Pillow Book, but have not begun to read a single one of them yet.
> Ditto lack of interest. Dogs and Demons, and Lost Japan were more insightful
> or educational regarding Japan as it is today.
> 
>> Have you seen films of Kurosawa, Ozu, Itami, Kobayashi?
> 
> Kurosawa is the only name I recognize as having seen. Naturally, as a child, I
> first saw the popular movies inspired by Kurosawa (Star Wars, The Magnificent
> Seven, A Fistful of Dollars, etc) before watching Kurosawa's works.
> 
> I prefer the western (or I should say more modern) takeoffs or adaptations.
> Which is not to say I prefer recent remakes or adaptations of classics.
> 
>> Have you even seen films of the Torasan series?
> 
> Some, but even two or three are all that are necessary to get the gist of the
> story. Torasan is as formulaic as Mito Komon, and quite frankly, not as much
> fun. (There was only one man who performed the Mito Komon role I liked.)
> Recall that "Torasan", like Kurosawa, is dead. Wake me when they make some
> great new Torasan or Kurosawa movies, or their cultural successors. I bet more
> anime like Ghost in the Shell or another Miyazaki classic (better than the
> most recent) will appear first.
> 
> I am still waiting for you to prove to me that quality movies represent a
> larger
> proportion of the whole, than is true of animation.
> 
>> It sounds like all you claim to fame is that you have lived here for a while
>> and know some of the language, as if that means you know anything at all
>> about the arts of the country you are living in.
> 
> What claim to fame? I live in Japan because I work here. I came to Japan to
> work. If I had been able to imagine a better job in California, Australia, or
> France, for example, I would have gone there and married there. I do not act
> like a student or tourist, I act like someone with a family who simply lives
> and works here. And when Japan has served its purpose, perhaps as early as
> this summer, it will be time to go, likely for good.
> 
> And it looks like you are trying to make up for some sort of feeling of
> inadequacy for your self proclaimed beginning language skills (or something
> else), by beating people over the head with all that you do supposedly know or
> have done. People who've engaged you in crossposts realized that quickly
> enough. I loved that exchange you had with that doctor in particular. Please,
> please, tell us more about your professional qualifications or your past
> career. Tell us how much you used to make, or how much you've saved, perhaps.
> I might be impressed.
> 
>>>> Have you watched any Japanese films except anime and porn?
>>> 
>>> Yes, but those which merit watching are not common. Beat Takeshi's
>>> "Zatoichi" is the most recent thing I've rented (twice). And even if one's
>>> tastes leaned toward anime and porn, that would still be representative of
>>> domestic offerings in local stores. If one were to discount Japanese anime,
>>> porn, period dramas, yakuza movies, and collections or spinoffs of TV shows,
>>> that would eliminate near 90% of what is available here, even with thousands
>>> of titles on the shelves. Eliminate recent trendy revisionist history pieces
>>> and formulaic low budget horror or shock films, and the selection's
>>> practically down to zero percent. Thankfully, even those remaining movies
>>> are generally of better quality than popular or prime time television. But
>>> if I want to watch mediocre or derivative movies, there are quite enough in
>>> my own language.
>> 
>> My guess is that your exposure to Japanese cinema is minimal, consisting of
>> what you see in the aisles on the way to the anime section or the porn
>> section.
> 
> Indeed. I do not believe I have watched any anime released to video after
> 2001, nor bought any since 1995, nor do I get to see many good Japanese
> movies. Get rid of the cliches, as cliched as the examples you give for anime,
> and the result is much the same. But for some reason, you think Japanese live
> action cinema is great.
> 
>> The Tora-san series is neither Japanese anime, porn, period dramas, yakuza
>> movies, nor collections or spinoffs of TV shows, and it was fun and amusing.
> 
> I did not claim it was. And it is amusing, in a retro sort of way, though I
> will not acquire or keep any for my children to watch when they get older.
> Tora-san is one of those mentioned few remaining movies after all the other
> cliches are gone. But Tora-san is a cliche like the Tsuri Baka Nishi series is
> a cliche. I don't know what genre they fall under. "Drama"? "Human"?
> "Meisaku"?
> 
> Do you claim that Tora-san is one of the high points of Japanese cinema? You
> may as well bring up later releases of Godzilla. It is not difficult to find
> anime better (or even more insightful) than that, such as Sazae-san. Just
> because Tora-san was claimed to be the longest running movie series in the
> world does not make it great, any more than Sazae-san is, for continuing for
> over 5,000 stories in 1,600 weekly shows. Do you claim that Kurosawa or any
> other names you drop are representative of the quality of the whole of
> Japanese cinema?
> 
>> Kurosawa's masterpiece "Ikiru" is neither Japanese anime, porn, period
>> dramas, yakuza movies, nor collections or spinoffs of TV show.
>> 
>> Shunji Iwai's "Love Letter" is neither Japanese anime, porn, period dramas,
>> yakuza movies, nor collections or spinoffs of TV shows.
> 
> It was a movie like a dramatic ladies manga, and if it were made in more
> recent years, it would have been made into a 12 week trendy drama.
> 
>> Most of the Ozu films were neither Japanese anime, porn, period dramas,
>> yakuza movies, nor collections or spinoffs of TV shows.
>> 
>> I could go on and on,
> 
> Try, if you want to prove how much greater than animation Japanese cinema in
> general is. I do not claim that animation is of greater quality than cinema,
> though it does enjoy more financial success internationally, and two Miyazaki
> works became the highest grossing films in Japanese history (after dethroning
> Titanic). Also point out where I claimed that those movie genre cliches I
> pointed out (there are more), are all that Japanese cinema is, or that there
> was not good (even world class great) Japanese cinema.
> 
>> but the point is that there is a long history of Japanese film,
> 
> Yes there is.
> 
>> some of it being VERY good,
> 
> I know it is. Some of it is classic.
> 
>> and you seem to be ignorant of it all.
> 
> I am not ignorant of the facts of your sentence above, nor did I claim
> otherwise. You are more ignorant of anime if you cannot get beyond the concept
> of mere porn or kiddie shows.
> 
> I estimated out of the thousands of Japanese titles available on local
> shelves, that considerably less than 10% are not cliches AND good. (Note, this
> does not mean that chiches are not good entertainment, though I doubt all good
> Japanese movies of all types would comprise more than 15 or 20%)
> 
> What is your own estimate of how much of Japanese cinema, past or present, is
> actually good?
>