Ernest Schaal wrote:

> Understanding the language is an advantage, but it is not enough. To
> understand Japanese cinema, you have to see it, and plenty of it. It is far
> better to see the works in subtitles than not at all.

Really? And on what basis do you claim to understand Japanese animation? How much
"alien plant" porn (you have not seen the extraterrestrial, cybernetic or occult
tentacle porn?) have you seen to make such a sweeping generalization? Even I do not
watch alien plant porn, and "Wandering Kid: Legend of the Overfiend", claimed to be
a milestone in naughty tentacle animation, I stumbled upon completely by accident
(and certainly did not know what to expect), as some classmates were amused by the
idea of a cartoon produced by Penthouse Magazine. "La Blue Girl" (the first of the
original series) was the only other anime of that type that I can name ever
watching.

> You have given no indication that you have seen a lot of the better Japanese
> films,

I don't. What better Japanese films? I'd like to get some for my wife before we
leave the country to keep her company. Mind you, she likes straight dramas, not
jidaigeki, occult, horror, or gangster shows. She doesn't seem to like comedies,
either. So for example, much of Itami, Kitano, or even Kurosawa are out.

> nor have you given any indication that you have read the better Japanese
> literature,

I don't. Not interested. Except for the desire for Japanese to preserve aspects of
traditional culture such as architecture or crafts, I am interested in modern
Japan. I've said as much numerous times.

> or seen the better Japanese art. The only indication
> that I remember about you and Japanese culture is the photos you published a
> while back of you attacking beverage containers with a sword. (I was not
> impressed.)

That's not Japanese culture, and it was not a sword. It was a bowie knife made by a
Georgia custom knife maker. Can cutting, among other things, is the way edges are
tested in the US. Japanese cut live bamboo or rolled bundles of straw, with or
without wooden cores.

You claim to be a lawyer licensed in two US states on early retirement from a
career in Japan, married with two grown children, if I recall. Perhaps you own a
home and drive a late model car, and have influential business contacts or friends.
Perhaps you have a degree of wealth yourself.

Exactly what is it you think I think is supposed to impress you about me, and why
should I care? What is it about you that is supposed to impress me? You didn't even
know about what constitutes libel or slander in Japan, and you don't know anime.

> >> Frankly, I will admit that your Japanese skills are far superior to mine,
> >
> > I have no clue what my skills are.
>
> Then why all those snide remarks

What snide remarks? It is you who claimed to be some sort of beginner regarding
Japanese language study. Thus you claiming to know about all this Japanese
entertainment or culture is an understandable surprise. For example, I assumed you
were being modest about your language skills. I'd be real interested in knowing how
you could have spent so much time living and working in Japan, and still claiming
to be a beginner. That is curiosity, not insult.

> about how I possibly couldn't understand Japanese culture by using subtitles?

I neither said nor assumed anything about you using subtitles. I was accepting your
claim about just having started studying Japanese at face value. Silly me.

> So you admit that, while you understand the language,

Here's what I "claim" to understand regarding the language, also a repeat of posts
over a number of years: one game I play is to see how long it takes a Japanese
person to realize I am a foreigner. My record is once going perhaps four years (I
lost track) without people reacting strangely to me or asking if I was foreign. On
the other hand, I once went only about a week last year before some young cashier
at McDonald's felt it necessary to slow down and motion putting things into a bag,
when asking me if I wanted to eat in or take my order out.

Most recently, I was once on the phone for about 30 minutes with some telemarketer
trying to interest me in commodities trading and investment, before I finally told
him that I was going back to the US (my home country) for school, and thus did not
have money to spend. He immediately put his hand over the receiver, and had some
conversation I could not make out with some other man, then came back on to ask me
how it was possible to have a name like Takabayashi Kenji (in kanji), yet be an
American. I confirmed that was one of the names I used living in Japan, then
explained. After more secretive discussion, a man I assume was his boss came on, to
comment further on how unusual I seemed, and began injecting the sales pitch with
what he thought to be English words or phrases, while I heard female voices
laughing at his bumbling efforts in the background.

That experience was further confirmation that me being able to go unnoticed for
years at times, while working or living in Japan is not merely because of my
appearance. On the other hand, as at that McDonald's (I have been a regular for
years though they know nothing about me, and do not know why that woman suddenly
behaved that way), some people notice fairly quickly, therefore I must have some
sort of accent that I am not able to detect myself. Perhaps I can go for long
periods without notice, because people I encounter during that time are simply more
polite than others.

Are you supposed to be impressed by this?

No. If someone lives in a country for 12 years, with relatives who are native
speakers, they damned well should be able to live, work, or be entertained in the
local language, which is also not meant as an insult to you.

> you have no clue about the Japanese non-martial arts?

Yes. Recall if you will, that I have posted a number of times over the years, how
the last time I studied Japanese (or anything, for that matter) was in fall 1991,
the last time I practiced writing Japanese was in 1989, and while I studied
Japanese language for four years at university (87-91), I studied NONE of the
composition, translation, art, or history which would have made it applicable for a
degree (my business department did not allow double majors at the time, and in any
case, I was only interested in understanding what was being said or written in the
anime or manga I was interested in at the time, and other shallow aspects of modern
culture).

By the way, here once more, is what I "claim" to know of the Japanese martial arts:
I studied aikido from a local retired policeman in my hometown for about a year in
1977-78. I studied kendo at the local Buddhist temple in my hometown for about a
year in 1985-86. I practiced judo for about four months along with the children
when I was made an assistant advisor for the club when I worked at a junior high
school beginning in 1993.

Indeed. Just how is it you think that I think you should be impressed by me, just
because I happen to (maybe) understand more Japanese language than you? Are you not
mistaking me for other posters who did ridicule you for saying you were taking
lessons, or for not knowing about libel or slander in Japan? I don't recall doing
either.

> Have you visited exhibitions of ukiyoe, nihonga, sumie, modern Japanese art?

Nope. No interest whatsoever except to feel that some things like ink brush
painting or block printing in general, look nice. And in general, I do not
recognize the merit of most modern art unless its creation requires actual training
or technical skill as the Renaissance masters demonstrated. Don't eat a pickled
fetus in public, throw buckets of paint at the wall, sit your painted buttocks on a
canvas, take photos of pools of women's urine on the street, make the lights in an
empty room go on and off, or construct a bust of the Virgin Mary with elephant
feces, and expect the public to appreciate it or the person who did it.

> Have you read any Mishima, Kawabata, Soseki, Takagi, Tanizaki?

I read a literal handful of books or short stories in English by Mishima and
Kawabata because they were required for my world literature course at university.
Mishima was a cliche. I liked Kawabata, though his being Japanese had no particular
relation to the story or my liking it. I once read a short story by Oe in English,
to my regret, though it was part of a school assignment. Here's the story IIRC: at
a dinner party at the home of the administrator of a mental hospital, for some
reason, located on the grounds of the mental hospital, some patients get loose,
causing some trouble. Final shocking scene: a woman uses her menstrual blood for
finger paint. Wow. No wonder Oe got the Nobel Prize. I'd like someone to tell me
why using archaic vocabulary with infrequent punctuation makes for great
literature.

I would choose recent trendy biographies or novels by the physically challenged or
underprivileged people who made something of themselves over those so called
classics.

> Have you even read Tale of Genji?

I have bought a few translations of Japanese classics, such as Tale of Genji and
the Pillow Book, but have not begun to read a single one of them yet. Ditto lack of
interest. Dogs and Demons, and Lost Japan were more insightful or educational
regarding Japan as it is today.

> Have you seen films of Kurosawa, Ozu, Itami, Kobayashi?

Kurosawa is the only name I recognize as having seen. Naturally, as a child, I
first saw the popular movies inspired by Kurosawa (Star Wars, The Magnificent
Seven, A Fistful of Dollars, etc) before watching Kurosawa's works.

I prefer the western (or I should say more modern) takeoffs or adaptations. Which
is not to say I prefer recent remakes or adaptations of classics.

> Have you even seen films of the Torasan series?

Some, but even two or three are all that are necessary to get the gist of the
story. Torasan is as formulaic as Mito Komon, and quite frankly, not as much fun.
(There was only one man who performed the Mito Komon role I liked.) Recall that
"Torasan", like Kurosawa, is dead. Wake me when they make some great new Torasan or
Kurosawa movies, or their cultural successors. I bet more anime like Ghost in the
Shell or another Miyazaki classic (better than the most recent) will appear first.

I am still waiting for you to prove to me that quality movies represent a larger
proportion of the whole, than is true of animation.

> It sounds like all you claim to fame is that you have lived here for a while
> and know some of the language, as if that means you know anything at all
> about the arts of the country you are living in.

What claim to fame? I live in Japan because I work here. I came to Japan to work.
If I had been able to imagine a better job in California, Australia, or France, for
example, I would have gone there and married there. I do not act like a student or
tourist, I act like someone with a family who simply lives and works here. And when
Japan has served its purpose, perhaps as early as this summer, it will be time to
go, likely for good.

And it looks like you are trying to make up for some sort of feeling of inadequacy
for your self proclaimed beginning language skills (or something else), by beating
people over the head with all that you do supposedly know or have done. People
who've engaged you in crossposts realized that quickly enough. I loved that
exchange you had with that doctor in particular. Please, please, tell us more about
your professional qualifications or your past career. Tell us how much you used to
make, or how much you've saved, perhaps. I might be impressed.

> >> Have you watched any Japanese films except anime and porn?
> >
> > Yes, but those which merit watching are not common. Beat Takeshi's "Zatoichi"
> > is the most recent thing I've rented (twice). And even if one's tastes leaned
> > toward anime and porn, that would still be representative of domestic
> > offerings in local stores. If one were to discount Japanese anime, porn,
> > period dramas, yakuza movies, and collections or spinoffs of TV shows, that
> > would eliminate near 90% of what is available here, even with thousands of
> > titles on the shelves. Eliminate recent trendy revisionist history pieces and
> > formulaic low budget horror or shock films, and the selection's practically
> > down to zero percent. Thankfully, even those remaining movies are generally of
> > better quality than popular or prime time television. But if I want to watch
> > mediocre or derivative movies, there are quite enough in my own language.
>
> My guess is that your exposure to Japanese cinema is minimal, consisting of
> what you see in the aisles on the way to the anime section or the porn
> section.

Indeed. I do not believe I have watched any anime released to video after 2001, nor
bought any since 1995, nor do I get to see many good Japanese movies. Get rid of
the cliches, as cliched as the examples you give for anime, and the result is much
the same. But for some reason, you think Japanese live action cinema is great.

> The Tora-san series is neither Japanese anime, porn, period dramas, yakuza
> movies, nor collections or spinoffs of TV shows, and it was fun and amusing.

I did not claim it was. And it is amusing, in a retro sort of way, though I will
not acquire or keep any for my children to watch when they get older. Tora-san is
one of those mentioned few remaining movies after all the other cliches are gone.
But Tora-san is a cliche like the Tsuri Baka Nishi series is a cliche. I don't know
what genre they fall under. "Drama"? "Human"? "Meisaku"?

Do you claim that Tora-san is one of the high points of Japanese cinema? You may as
well bring up later releases of Godzilla. It is not difficult to find anime better
(or even more insightful) than that, such as Sazae-san. Just because Tora-san was
claimed to be the longest running movie series in the world does not make it great,
any more than Sazae-san is, for continuing for over 5,000 stories in 1,600 weekly
shows. Do you claim that Kurosawa or any other names you drop are representative of
the quality of the whole of Japanese cinema?

> Kurosawa's masterpiece "Ikiru" is neither Japanese anime, porn, period
> dramas, yakuza movies, nor collections or spinoffs of TV show.
>
> Shunji Iwai's "Love Letter" is neither Japanese anime, porn, period dramas,
> yakuza movies, nor collections or spinoffs of TV shows.

It was a movie like a dramatic ladies manga, and if it were made in more recent
years, it would have been made into a 12 week trendy drama.

> Most of the Ozu films were neither Japanese anime, porn, period dramas,
> yakuza movies, nor collections or spinoffs of TV shows.
>
> I could go on and on,

Try, if you want to prove how much greater than animation Japanese cinema in
general is. I do not claim that animation is of greater quality than cinema, though
it does enjoy more financial success internationally, and two Miyazaki works became
the highest grossing films in Japanese history (after dethroning Titanic). Also
point out where I claimed that those movie genre cliches I pointed out (there are
more), are all that Japanese cinema is, or that there was not good (even world
class great) Japanese cinema.

> but the point is that there is a long history of Japanese film,

Yes there is.

> some of it being VERY good,

I know it is. Some of it is classic.

> and you seem to be ignorant of it all.

I am not ignorant of the facts of your sentence above, nor did I claim otherwise.
You are more ignorant of anime if you cannot get beyond the concept of mere porn or
kiddie shows.

I estimated out of the thousands of Japanese titles available on local shelves,
that considerably less than 10% are not cliches AND good. (Note, this does not mean
that chiches are not good entertainment, though I doubt all good Japanese movies of
all types would comprise more than 15 or 20%)

What is your own estimate of how much of Japanese cinema, past or present, is
actually good?