Eric Takabayashi wrote:
> necoandjeff wrote:
>
>> Sorry, what's the total crap part? Are people who believe that they
>> are spirits after they die atheists?
>
> No, but under normal conditions people like most people whom I've
> ever met who do explicitly say in English or Japanese, there is no
> God/gods/spirits, I do not believe in God/gods/spirits, would
> probably be considered atheist.

Atheism is certainly easier to embrace in Japan because there isn't the
horrible stigma like there is in the West. I have little doubt that there
are probably (just guessing though) more "atheists" in Japan. But to say
most are, or even that a signficantly higher number are than in the U.S. is
stretching it. I think the average person on the street would not deny the
existence of God, gods, deities, etc.

> http://tinyurl.com/4eyle
>
> Definition
> atheist 癖[Show phonetics]
> noun [C]
> someone who believes that God or gods do not exist
>
> Something like that.

Agreed, but note that this definition itself is a bit monotheist-centric. I
would have a difficult time considering someone who believes in spirits as
being an atheist.

> However, in Japan such people who say so, might still call themselves
> Shinto (or Buddhist), or still go through the motions at the
> appropriate times. So what are they, if not atheist?

They are spiritualists or dualists. I certainly wouldn't consider them
"atheists," and I don't think that not considering them atheists is such a
controversial thing. If a Westerner insisted on considering such people
atheists, I would suggest that they are allowing their own religious beliefs
to color their feelings. The conclusions that have been reached by the
typical atheist are quite different from the conclusions that have been
reached by the typical dualist/spiritualist, etc.

> I don't even know the Japanese word for atheist, nor how many people
> I've met know the word in English, and "mushinron" hasn't come up
> either.

It's not a terribly common word because the topic doesn't come up as much as
it does in the West. And those who are of a religious persuasion don't hold
such contempt for those who don't. But the word is 無神論
(mushinron=atheism) or 無心論者 (mushinronsha=atheist).

> BTW, are people who not believe in "Kamisama" or kami, but talk about
> rei or seirei, or believes in ghosts, supposed to be considered
> atheist?

As explained above, I wouldn't. And I don't think there are many atheists
who would. Religous people who want to consider them atheists are probably
just giving in to the temptation to slap that evil label on anyone who
strays too far from what they consider acceptable. I've used the word
apatheism before to denote people who don't really care whether there is a
God/gods. A lot of Japanese probably fall into this camp. But I would not
consider them an atheist. An atheist to me is some who has actively come to
the conclusion that there is no such thing as God/gods/spirits, etc.

Jeff