John Yamamoto-Wilson wrote:

> Eric Takabayashi wrote
>
> > God man, I know women who do not even
> > do housework (maybe their live in mother or mother in law does it,
> > yet they have no jobs and bitch about life, the economy, or their
> > husbands and their jobs.
>
> But we were specifically talking about those who do work but take care to
> keep their income below the tax threshold.

And I'm illustrating attitudes of some problem women who also do so.

> > Unless women earned their own money and made their own payments,
> > they would not get benefits. The same situation breadwinner men are in.
> But men
> > don't have a problem with working to support themselves despite paying
> taxes.
> > Women should learn it too.
>
> But what do you think would happen in reality?

Japan might become like other industrialized countries where women do more to
take care of themselves.

> Do you think all the women
> who are currently covered via their husband's insurance will suddenly rush
> out and get work?

They would if they wanted to be covered.

> Don't you think that many of them would simply become an
> unacceptably heavy burden on their husbands who, as I say, would resent this
> and bitterly oppose such a move?

You see the problem with women if YOU are the one proposing such an outcome?
Why don't such women just get it through their heads that if they want more
money, they need to work more or harder, or change jobs or train for better
jobs, if they want to earn like or be respected more like the dominant men?
Women in other countries did.

> > What poverty traps in Japan are you referring to?
>
> I wasn't referring specifically to Japan. You ask for parallels, and I can
> give you plenty, one being the way I've seen some people (mainly in the UK)
> actually *choose* the dole over a low-paid job because working simply wasn't
> worth the candle.

That is why workers should be paid more, and why people on the dole who make
such choices, should be cut off. Welfare and unemployment is for people who
can't work, not people who quit jobs to go on vacation like in Japan.

> Another parallel from the UK would be the fact that there
> there is a threshold above which inheritances are liable for death duties,
> and people respond by doing their damnedest to give away as much of their
> money as possible before dying in order to be below the threshold and avoid
> the duty.

What about it? My family might lose half its wealth to inheritance tax or
capital gains taxes if we try to sell. If I want more money, I'll just have to
work and save. Other people who have more time to work more, can learn it, too.

> > You'll notice Japanese level of homelessness is also
> > much lower than in the US, about one tenth the population.
>
> God, is it really as high as that in the US? That's appalling.

As I replied elsewhere, no, not 10 percent of the US population, Japanese
homeless number about one tenth the number of homeless in the US.

> > > > What market are you referring to which Chinese women dominate?
> > >
> > > Sorry, Eric. "The game" is a longstanding euphemism for prostitution.
> >
> > Then foreign women are hardly dominant in that area.
>
> Well, when I get off the train at night I have to run the gamut of up to a
> dozen Chinese prostitutes just to get from the railway station to the bus
> station. Your mileage may differ.

Japanese women work from establishments or do it through the communications
network. They don't need to walk the streets unless they are touts advertising
a shop. You will never actually see most Japanese women who provide sexual
services for money.

Did you not notice such a fact?

> > Women will even tell me proverbs such as, the best
> > husband is not at home, or tell me how happy they are that their
> > husbands are not around, or the hell they have to go through with
> > their sick or retired husbands. They'd be divorced if they weren't
> > more worried about not getting their husbands' money.
>
> Well, and others will tell me that they have to place their husband's
> slippers just so at the entrance when he comes home, have his newspaper in
> place, serve him tea or coffee at his whim and the closest he ever gets to
> communicating with her is grunting,

I know a lot of middle aged and elderly people. I don't get that, though I am
sure it is true of more old fashioned people.

But that is another issue. So ask the women why they didn't support themselves
or get a divorce if they are so unhappy, or why they did not better invest in
themselves to be better able to support themselves.

> partly because he is exhausted after
> another twelve-hour working day.

Why yes, and that is because the husband/man is expected to work in Japanese
society. If my wife expected me to work my ass off and support her, I'd
explicitly tell her to take care of the house and kids in return. That's not
sexism, because that view of what a man "should" do is a choice she made.
Taking care of the house *in return* for the man's financial support is fair
play. It is extremely unfair of the women to dump their husbands when they no
longer work (particularly when they may still receive a hefty pension package
until death). Those men didn't dump their wives just because they aren't so
slim, young, or pretty, or because they've ended their child rearing duties.

> Having sacrificed their lives to propping
> up their husbands as the backbone of the Japanese economy, surely they are
> entitled to health treatment and some kind of pension?

Women don't need to be full time housewives. They've learned that elsewhere.
They can also learn to support themselves like men do, so men can also have
more time to work at home, and relieve some of their own stress that they not
work themselves into ill health or suicide.

> > unlike elsewhere, Japanese women are not acting for
> > themselves. There have been figures fighting for women's rights
> > in the US since at least the mid 19th century, putting themselves at risk,
> > being harassed, mobbed, and jailed.
>
> Well, perhaps Japanese society (and in particular its women) wants different
> things, and forcing them to eat the same pie as the Sepponians simply isn't
> appropriate?

No, women in Japan certainly do want the kinds of rights women in other
countries enjoy, such as more equality in society or the workplace. Don't tell
me you haven't noticed.

They just aren't as willing as foreign women to work for it to achieve it for
themselves.

> > > Poor kids! Their childhood has been sacrificed on the altar of entrance
> > > examinations,
> >
> > That's a mistake to begin with. I would do away with those. Grades and
> other
> > than academic achievements, such as demonstrations of leadership and
> > extracurricular activity, are more important.
> >
> > > their future is in thrall to some corporate magnate,
> >
> > They should do away with that corporate structure, too. The economy is
> having
> > that effect. Economic instability is making millions of Japanese start to
> take
> > charge of themselves. Thank god.
>
> OK, so you have a package, one that would affect every aspect of Japanese
> society,

Of course. To simply cut off underachieving women or men would be unfair. They
need opportunities to train and work.

> not simply a one-off proposal to cut benefits for non-working women
> . All you need now is to get yourself elected, or bend the ear of those in
> power, and Bob's your uncle!

I don't need to do anything to change Japan. Open your eyes and notice how
Japan has already changed a lot, even just during the short ten years I have
been in Japan. Public school is off on Saturdays, as are many companies. People
don't need to study or work so hard now, and in fact, never did. The poor
economy has made Japanese more choosy about the jobs they wish to pursue, or
what company they would like to work for. Women suffer less discrimination, and
have much greater opportunities (hey, they can even be 747 pilots and
shinkansen drivers, or prefectural governors and heads of political parties or
ministries, which millions still unfortunately CHOOSE not to take. Women I know
who actually do pursue careers are the ones who seem most upset by persisting
traditional female behavior or views.

Efforts need to be made just to encourage or hasten such change.