John Yamamoto-Wilson wrote:

> I wrote:
>
> > > I wouldn't disagree out of hand, and am probably as upset as you are at
> the
> > > waste of human resources I see here in Japan. Even so, the fact that a
> few
> > > right-wing politicians have their heads stuck in the sand doesn't
> reflect
> > > the degree of maturity of the Japanese people
>
> and Eric Takabayashi replied:
>
> > Then you aren't paying much attention to the attitudes of the general
> public
> > themselves when they respond in surveys for example, that they support
> > traditional gender roles...
>
> Eric, I'm sure there are many Japanese people - male and female - who on the
> one hand think that Mori's comment was crass, but who, on the other hand do
> not think exactly the same as politically-correct Westerners on this issue.
> My basic point is that Western notions of political correctness are not the
> be-all-and-end-all of "maturity".
>
> I don't think that a society which has looked at these issues and come to a
> different conclusion is therefore "immature". I lived in the south of Spain
> for many years in a society that explicitly and specifically rejected
> political correctness to a far greater extent than the Japanese do, but
> there was no denying the sophisticated nature of that society.
>
> > ...or the phenomenon of how women work part time for low
> > salaries (under 110 hours per month, and under 1.3 million per year, or
> > what have you) *specifically* to avoid paying higher taxes or being
> > required to pay for their own health and pension.
>
> I don't quite see your point. Surely this is an example of the waste of
> human resources I was talking about? The system discourages them from
> pursuing a career, right? That's precisely what I was driving at.

It is not "the system" which is to be blamed for women CHOOSING not to work.
Women in the US pay taxes, but they are much more willing to work or even
support themselves.

> > I personally welcome the proposal to eliminate
> > exemptions for spouses, to encourage women to work more like
> > men, and reduce debt.
>
> Well, this seems to me to be an entirely different issue, but since you
> bring it up my initial reaction is that, unless it is one measure in a
> well-thought-out package of measures, I imagine the result would be that for
> every one women it spurs on to say, "OK, I'll work full-time and make a
> proper career out of it" there will be twenty who will say, "Heck, I was
> working for peanuts before, but at least they were tax-free peanuts. If I've
> got to pay tax on it it's just not worth the bother".

Ah. You do have suspicions of how women behave in Japan. But you misunderstand:

They WOULD bother to make their own damned money if it meant women NOT
collecting government pension or not getting 70% subsidized medical service.

Under the current system, one woman in the news calculated she would have to
earn 1.7 million per year, IIRC, to take home as much as she did earning less
than 1.3 million in a lower tax bracket.

I don't know about you, but I certainly don't know MEN to deliberately keep
their work hours or salaries down (also hindering their career opportunities)
just to avoid paying tax. I don't know working age men who have a real choice
about working or not at all. Even the rich ones work to keep their family
businesses going, or find something else to do if they sell.

> Of course, it might
> encourage some of them to go on the game, but that could result in some
> nasty turf wars with the Chinese girls who at present appear to have
> cornered the lion's share of the market

What market are you referring to which Chinese women dominate? I'm talking
about Japanese women working like Japanese men at comparable positions and
salaries and benefits, like women in other industrialized countries do.

> and, since it would, by its nature,
> be the exact opposite of working "more like men", this is clearly not what
> you had in mind.

In Japan's case, if women from their end reduced the gap between how men and
women worked, men would also be able to work less, and have more leisure and
time for domestic chores. Northern European countries such as Norway have
reduced many such discrepancies between men and women. So much so that there is
actually worry  in Norway that women no longer "need" men to raise a family,
and there is a rise in single motherhood.

> No, as I see it, by such a measure Japan would lose its biggest source of
> cheap labour in one fell swoop

If women worked more, for more money, men could work less, for lower salaries,
and families would still make it, like in Norway. Men would also do more
domestic chores, as they do in other industrialized countries. I think what I
read just last month claimed husbands in Finland spent four hours per day on
housework and child care, and husbands in Japan were down at about 20 minutes.
The little article I read did not report how much housework the women were
doing.

> and either there'd be a huge influx of cheap
> foreign labour to fill the gap

There wouldn't be enough foreigners allowed to fill the gap. The UN estimates
Japan needs an influx of 600,000 laborers *per year*, for 50 years, to maintain
Japan's economy in the face of population decline.

Japanese students could be allowed to work, as they do in other countries, to
supply low cost or low skill labor in part time jobs. That would encourage them
to stop living off their parents, too, and lead to more responsible saving and
spending. There'd be a lot fewer idle young Japanese if they paid for their own
education or living expenses like many foreigners did.

> (plus - if such a thing is possible! - even
> more hairdressers, etc., for the newly-idle women to hang out in)

That is correct. Leisure is one sector with potential for growth. It would
*create* jobs, because I don't see many Chinese girls working at Disneyland, in
the Louis Vuitton stores, or as bus guides.

> or
> Japanese companies would move even more of their operations abroad,
> resulting in even greater job losses.

There are still things that low cost foreign labor cannot do. Japanese need to
promote growth in such areas as high technology and service.