Ron Hitler Barrassi wrote:
> 
> 
> Kevin Gowen wrote:
> 
>> Ron Hitler Barrassi wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ron Hitler Barrassi wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kevin Gowen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ron Hitler Barrassi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kevin Gowen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ron Hitler Barrassi wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ron Hitler Barrassi wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If that is the case, why did you suggest using a spring based 
>>>>>>>>>>> device to measure the downward force 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because I have heard of Hooke's Law.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But not the gravitional constant apparently.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> when the correct way to measure force is it's effect on 
>>>>>>>>>>> moving *a* body of mass?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's "effect"? I don't even know what that is supposed to 
>>>>>>>>>> mean. Who says that a mass acted upon by a force must be in 
>>>>>>>>>> motion? Push against a building as hard as you can. The 
>>>>>>>>>> building does not move, but you are still exerting a force 
>>>>>>>>>> upon it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> F=ma
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (I've highlighted the definite article to draw attention to 
>>>>>>>>> your misreading)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I didn't elaborate on this point. You cannot use a spring to 
>>>>>>>> measure a force. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Really? Don't tell Hooke.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It can only be used to measure weight (NB deliberate use of 
>>>>>>>> "weight", not "mass" not "force", but "weight". 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Weight is a force.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Weight is a scalar. Force is a vector. 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Weight, being a force and having magnitude and direction, is a vector.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> and weight is measured in kilograms.
>>>>
>>>> Game. Set. Match.
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Must be tough for you playing against someone who is thinking 
>>>> several moves ahead.
>>>>
>>>> Oh and when I jump out the building to test the bathroom scales as 
>>>> you suggested how much do I weigh?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't weigh in the direction of anything.  
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In this planet, your weight is a force vector in the direction of 
>>>>> the earth's center of mass. This is why you place a scale beneath 
>>>>> you rather than on top of your head.
>>>>>
>>>>>> As you are in Florida your weight is in a different direction to 
>>>>>> mine? (I'll let you off this one)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A spring, like your tug of war rope, requires a force at both 
>>>>>>>> ends to expand, or contract.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes. In the case of a bathroom scale that measures weight with a 
>>>>>>> spring, the person standing on the scale provides *the* force at 
>>>>>>> one end. The floor beneath the scale provides the force at the 
>>>>>>> other end.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You missed the definite article again.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You called "a" the definite article again.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 'the' is the definite article?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> If a force act on a spring the spring will accelerate off in the 
>>>>>> direction of the force. We would lose a lot of springs that way. 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A force need not result in motion. Compress a spring between your 
>>>>> thumb and a finger. Force is acting on the spring, 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Forces are acting on the spring.
>>>>
>>>>  From 2 directions, one from my finger and the other from my thumb. 
>>>> Two digits, two forces. (The opposite of your Not "a force", two 
>>>> forces. Equal and opposite, Newton's 3rd is satisfied. I can't 
>>>> compress a spring with one finger, sort of like one hand clapping. 
>>>> Really this is too easy. Take a break, Kevin.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Did you take a break or my server ignored you?
>>
>>
>>
>> This is just too comical. I can't believe you necroed this thread. 
>> Most people in your position would have taken the opportunity to stay 
>> quiet and salvage a minimal amount of face. I had given you the 
>> benefit of the doubt and assumed you were just ripping off my Andy 
>> Kaufman schtick, but now it seems you are sincere.
>>
>> It finally dawned on me that your misunderstanding results from your 
>> ignorance of the difference between force and work.
> 
> 
> You, chairs and work have absolutely no relationship. (actually the 
> chair does a fair amount of work, but not the strict scientific definition)

I can't tell if you are cracking wise or attempting to make a scientific 
assertion.

>> This fact reflects that you have no knowledge of physics whatsoever, 
>> although such might have been gleaned from the fact that you asserted 
>> the "gravitational constant" has a value of 1, that "m" stands for 
>> mass in grams, and that "down" is a vector.
> 
> 
> Seems you have "forgotten" your chair example which means you have 
> realised you were wrong.

What's to forget? I'll repeat it again:
If a person with a mass of 100kg is sitting on a chair at rest, the 
force of gravity's pull is 980 newtons. In turn, the chair pushes up 
with 980 newtons.

What on earth did you mean when you said "g=1"? What are the units?

>> Regarding your confusion as to what are the definite and indefinite 
>> articles, I refer you to this page for novice students of English as a 
>> second language:
>> http://esl.about.com/library/beginner/blathe.htm
>>
> 
> I'm not confused, I even highlighted your mistake.
> 
>  >>>>>> spring, the person standing on the scale provides *the* force at

Is that why you asked, "'the' is the definite article?"

> So tell me again Gowen. How many forces are required to compress a 
> spring? 

Two.

> How does a chair magically know when to push up? 

The chair knows nothing. It doesn't need to.

> If you add two
> equal and opposite forces they cancel each other; 

Yes, which is why the person is at rest.

> so why does the chair 
> push down? (down being the null length vector pointing to the center of 
> the earth)

Push down on what, the earth? Probably because it has mass.

>  | 980newtons
> \|/
> 
> /|\
>  | 980newtons
> 
> 
> so we have fab - fba = 0. But yet the chair still pushes down with a 
> force 980newtons. Seems your highschool idea of physic is missing 
> something significant.

Maybe you should enlighten me, then.

> Have you discovered General Relativity yet? It's very interesting. I 
> suggest you ignore the time dilation stuff at first.

Yes, that's why I made the remark about travelling at .866c , which 
whooshed you.

-- 
FAB = -FBA
It's not just a good idea; it's the law.