Ron Hitler Barrassi wrote:
> 
> 
> Kevin Gowen wrote:
> 
>> Ron Hitler Barrassi wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kevin Gowen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ron Hitler Barrassi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Kevin Gowen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ron Hitler Barrassi wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kevin Gowen wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ron Hitler Barrassi wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kevin Gowen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ron Hitler Barrassi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Gowen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ernest Schaal wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in article apjb111jq9usblq1742go3h6duj9ihfj19@4ax.com, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Cash at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikecash@buggerallspammers.com wrote on 2/18/05 8:20 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 06:11:53 +0900, Ernest Schaal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <eschaal@max.hi-ho.ne.jp> brought down from the Mount tablets
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inscribed:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Frankly, when I read your message about why you stay in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Japan, I felt sorry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you. Stasis is not a fun reason to stay here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I meant it as an answer as to why Rev. Ed is still here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But when you come right down to it, being settled in any 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> location
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involves stasis. So what does it matter whether stasis has 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overtaken
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me here or elsewhere? I'm just as content right where I am 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as I imagine I would be anywhere else.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry if I read too much into your answer. Stasis involves 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> conflicting
>>>>>>>>>>>>> forces, and I took it to mean that you were caught in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> middle of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>> conflicting forces.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You are in stasis most of the time. As you sit in your 
>>>>>>>>>>>> chair, it is pushing up against you with the exact same 
>>>>>>>>>>>> force with which gravity pulls you down.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Are you a good or even moderately competent lawyer? I 
>>>>>>>>>>> certainly hope so.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sorry that I can't write a longer reply, but my chair is 
>>>>>>>>>> pushing up against me with a force greater than that of 
>>>>>>>>>> gravity's pull upon me, so I am slowly drifting away from my 
>>>>>>>>>> keyboard into the strato.......
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'M SHOUTING SO YOU CAN HEAR ME.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> AS THE CHAIR WAS PUSHING WITH A FORCE THEN IT HAS PROBABLY NOW 
>>>>>>>>> EXPLODED. 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, the chair is remarkably intact and continues to push up 
>>>>>>>> against me with a force that is a function of my mass times the 
>>>>>>>> acceleration of gravity.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you measure this "force" with a forcographer?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have no idea what a "forcographer" is,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe you know it as a forcometer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or a forcemeter, yes.
>>>>
>>>>>> but this force could be measured with a bathroom scale that can be 
>>>>>> purchased in any number of retail outlets. Such devices measure 
>>>>>> forces, you see.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> no, that would measure the force exerted by you, not the chair.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it would. The chair and I are exerting the same magnitude of 
>>>> force in opposite directions. The scale would be useless if this 
>>>> were not the case. When you step on a scale, it can only tell you 
>>>> your weight if it has a floor to push against. If you wish to verify 
>>>> this empirically, jump out of a tall window while standing on a 
>>>> scale. While I hate to ruin the experiment, the scale will register 
>>>> no weight.
>>>>
>>>> As I sit in this chair, I am at rest. This fact means that the net 
>>>> force acting upon me is zero. This means one of two things:
>>>>
>>>> 1. No forces are acting upon me.
>>>> 2. For every force acting upon me, there is an equal and opposite 
>>>> force.
>>>>
>>>> Since even you woufld admit that gravity exerts a force upon me, 
>>>> choice #1 is clearly not true. Therefore, it must be that the chair 
>>>> is pushing on me with a force equal and opposite to that of gravity. 
>>>> Some people like to call this "Newton's Third Law of Motion".
>>>>
>>>> Most high school physics texts cover Newton's laws in the first 
>>>> chapter. You may wish to pick one up. Or, you could just do some 
>>>> Googling.
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/4foqu
>>>>
>>>
>>> **high school physics texts**. Well there is the problem. Both you 
>>> and the earth are attracting each other. The chair just happens to 
>>> have gotten in the way. 
>>
>>
>>
>> Which means that the chair is exerting a force. This is why chairs are 
>> useful.
>>
>> PWNT!
>>
> 
> But you can't measure this force.

As I have already explained, you can.

> Mr Newton, I would like to introduce you to Mr Einstein.

Er, ok. You're not one of those types that think Newtonian mechanics is 
"old-fashioned" and out-of-date, are you? It's a common affliction of 
Star Trek fans.

> Let's do an experiment. You are sitting on your chair. It's a 5 legged 
> rotating one, no arms and no fancy gas cushioning. You are pressing down 
> with 100kg. You see your "sports" bag (weighing 100kg) on the ground and 
> remember there is a Hershey bar in it. You pick it up and momentarily 
> there is 400kg pushing downo on the chair (you + the bag + the 
> acceleration of lifting the bag) [ignore the massive fart you let rip - 
> too hard to measure]. 

I don't know where 200 kg of mass magically appeared from. Your 
experiment has violated the First Law of Thermodynamics, thereby shaking 
the very foundation of physics.

> You put the bag on your lap. There is now 200kg 
> pushing down. The phone rings and you rotate in your chair and the bag 
> falls off. There is now 100kg pushing down on the chair. Why aren't you 
> ejected into space when you drop the bag? Surely the chair was pushing 
> up with 200kg.So this magic chair has pushed up with 100kg, rising to 
> 400kg then 200kg, then suddenly back down to 100kg. Suddenly the chair 
> gives way and collapses. You are now sitting on a pile of cloth,plastic 
> and metal - but this magic chair is still pushing up with 100kg of 
> force. 

A kilogram is not a unit of force; it is a unit of mass. I believe the 
term you want is "newton". I could understand your hypothetical better 
if you did not insist on using units of mass as if they were units of force.

> How does this magic chair keep pushing up with the exact amount 
> of force required?

Newton's Third Law. It's the same thing that makes rockets work. Magic 
has nothing to do with it. You may as well ask about how magic light 
beams know to travel at c relative to all observers.

> It's simple but you have to realise most of what you were taught at 
> highschool was wrong. First year university physics is mostly relearning 
> what you were taught at school.

I took college physics in high school by taking what is known as an "AP" 
class. I passed the exam at year's end and entered college with physics 
credit. Even in non-AP high school physics, I am pretty sure they teach 
SI units.

Why did you mention Einstein when relativistic physics had nothing to do 
with your hypothetical? Was I traveling at 87% the speed of light?

- Kevin