Eric wrote:

> even foreign organizations were using Japanese servers to host their
>foreign porn in Japan. Perhaps this was in an effort to support their
> own countries' laws

"Support" seems an odd word to use in this context. Wouldn't "circumvent" be
closer to the mark?

> Japan has enacted laws against child porn online

Fair point. Yes, obviously one would expect that to lead to a reduction of
child pornography in Japan.

> What I am curious about is why a UN body would claim this year that
> maybe 60% of child porn online is from the US, when the US supposedly
> has laws against child porn.

Interesting point. Do you have any answers?

> You say it is a survey of companies. The over three quarters
> figure...

Is that what it was? I had forgotten.

> ...was a survey of girls and women under IIRC, 23 years
>  of age about ten years ago.

The workers in the companies, even if over 23, were 23 once and were girls
once. the point is that more sober statistics suggest that "at least 17%" of
Japanese women have been affected *at some time in their lives* by chikan.
That I can believe. What I doubted at the time - and still doubt, though you
defended it hotly - was that over three quarters of Japanese women have been
so affected. For a start, I would guess that at least half the female
population are not even regular travellers on the trains (where most of the
abuse occurs), and that perhaps only a quarter of women using the trains use
them during the rush hour (the time when most offences are committed).

> you neglect the fact that stricter laws have been enacted against
> train molestation, and that still stricter laws are being considered.

Yes, perhaps I should take heart. Certainly, the situation - if not as bad
as you were suggesting - was nothing for Japan to be proud of, and one hopes
that things *are* improving.

> If there is not some commotion due to the accused being a
> teacher or some high profile figure, or the accused does not
> fight the charge, it is possible to avoid publicity.

Well, this raises the spectre of quite a different form of abuse. As the
link I gave you says:

   "Some of the 'victims' aren't so innocent, and false accusations of
groping are increasing. The shame associated with chikan makes it possible
for especially enterprising young women to blackmail fellow train users.
   "Faced with a hysterically shrieking woman, most men are willing to be
led to the nearest ATM and part with large sums of money (US$3000 isn't
uncommon)."
(http://ballz.ababa.net/uninvited/groping.htm)

> as a recent rise in arrests (despite a decline in claims) shows, more
> women (and bystanders) are now emboldened to apprehend and
> report abuse.

Good (if true). Do you have a link to show how this is panning out? The link
I gave doesn't appear to agree, and just says:

"Unfortunately, this [the crackdown on gropers] hasn't emboldened many
Japanese women. Surrounded by strangers, most women would rather pretend
nothing unusual is happening than create a scene. Gropers exploit this, and
pick their victims carefully."
(http://ballz.ababa.net/uninvited/groping.htm)

> At the least, it was women in the Tokyo region, not "two high schools",
> and I don't know where you got that from.

I already said:

> Take a look at http://ballz.ababa.net/uninvited/groping.htm. It says:
>
> "In 2001, a survey of two private high-schools in Tokyo revealed that
> more than 70% had been groped on the train."

Those were the kinds of figures you were claiming, and I guess they were
based on the same kind of (rather invalid) premises.

> > I'd also like to point out how you jumped on those very high statistics
> > in defence of a racist and prejudiced agenda.
>
> What racist and prejudiced agenda? If over three quarters of young
> women say they have been molested on trains, then that is what
> they say.

The purpose of my raising the matter again is twofold.

Firstly, the "over three quarters" figue looks drastically inflated. "At
least 17%" seems a lot more realistic.

Secondly, whatever the statistics, it was racist and prejudiced for Ernest
Schaal to suggest that

> In japan, chikan is the rule for men, not the exception
(http://tinyurl.com/5yy2q)

I think you were wrong to defend such an ill-considered statement. Quite
simply, most Japanese men would consider chikan to be just that, chikan
(i.e., perverts). As I said at the time, I cannot imagine that a majority of
my male colleagues at work, my male neighbours and my male students engage
in this kind of behaviour.

Even if it were true that most Japanese women were victims of chikan it
would be statistically analogous to saying that (for example) most British
people have felt threatened, at some time or other, by hooligans, which
would *not* mean that hooliganism is the rule, not the exception, for
British youth. A small number of chikan or hooligans could - and do - harass
a large number of people.

Think about it like this. Suppose there are 500,000 chikan active in Japan,
with an average of one molestation per month and active over an average
period of 25 years. That would total 150,000,000 abuses (more than the total
population - male and female - of Japan), and would comfortably provide the
statistic that "over three quarters" of Japanese women have been abused by
chikan, but it would still leave the majority of Japanese men completely
guiltless.

I repeat:

> In japan, chikan is the rule for men, not the exception

was an ill-considered and racist statement and I think you were wrong to
defend it.

> 60% of child pornography orignates in the US, is not the same as 60%
> of young women say they have been molested. Do you see a difference?

Well, I do, and I admit I was being (partly) rhetorical. But do you also see
the difference between claims that "over three quarters" of Japanese women
have been assaulted by chikan and figures suggesting that "at least 17%" of
women have been affected?

Do you also see that, even if 60% of young women *did* say they had been
molested, that this would not necessarily implicate 60% of men, and a claim
that such molestation was "the rule" for the male population would be
unfair?

And, of course, there will never be a statistic that says 60% of molested
children worldwide claimed that their molesters had been influenced by
American-generated paedophiliac websites.

--
John
http://rarebooksinjapan.com