Ryan Ginstrom <ryang@gol.com> wrote:

> <mtfester@netMAPSONscape.net> wrote in message

> There are some major philisophical differences as well. The Japanese are
> taught to make one or two throws their own, and dedicate their judo careers
> to perfecting them. The Europeans (and to some extend the former Soviet
> countries) tend to analyze the latest successful moves, picking them up and
> discarding them as people learn to counter them.

Looks like they tend to take the wrestlers who don't make their national
team and try them out in judo (and quite possibly vice versa)

I understand that silly things like gripping rules keep constantly
changing as well. I know when I work out with the judo guys, they
constantly warn me about some of the grips (my approach: if they don't
want you to grip it, make the gi too short/tight to be gripped there.)

They even have rules over what parts of your own gi you can grab to
defend yourself.

> One throw you saw all over the olympics was this kind of half-assed
> sukui-nage, grabbing the calf and kind of pancaking the opponent. It might

Yeah. Uchishiba's throw was fun to watch, though I wouldn't've awarded
it "ippon".

> get an ippon, but it is cheesy and not exciting to watch.

> This has been going on for a while, I assume because the top level athletes
> are too good at turning out.  The rule for ippon is landing fully on the
> back, or "substantially" on the back with strong momentum.

I think the thing is that if you award an ippon (or even a waza-ari) for
just getting the guy on his back on a throw (and I saw only Uchishiba's
first throw with any kind of momentum, much less "strong"), there's no
incentive to take a more upright stance and try for the more powerful
throws. Similarly, if a cheesy throw that would get you strangled in
BJJ can cost you a gold, there's that much less incentive to stand up
and expose yourself.

>> And the mat work was horrible. I understand that if the guy doesn't tap
>> within about 3 seconds, they make you stand up, but these were some of
>> the worst arm-bars I've ever seen attempted. I haven't yet seen one

> I saw a couple decent armbars, with maybe one successful; and perhaps three
> succesful chokes. Inoue did a nice front choke. Additionally, chokes were

Hope so; I've only seen the lower weights so far.

> combined into pinning combinations at least twice. The Korean at 70 kg (or
> was it 90?) in particular had a devestating triangle choke, although I don't
> think he ever got it going.

Yeah, I know they have wierd rules about how to choke as well.

> Actually though, I thought there was generally more time for matwork given
> than in the last olympics. Here I think that the other speed-up measures

Scarey...

> gave the judges a bit more leeway

> But the general consensus in judo circles is that people are bored by
> matwork, and we have to make judo exciting to watch if we want to get
> exposure for judo and get kids into the sport.

Maybe, but do those same people then explain away the growing popularity
of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?

> The interest in Pride et al should have given lie to this, but I guess judo
> officials don't watch Pride...

OK, you answered my question before I read to the bottom :-)

Damn shame, really, though. I swear, the very best mat work book I've
ever seen is Okano's _Vital Judo_. Even disregarding the pins for my
sport, it's the most useful for showing various chokes and armbars (no
wristlocks, of course, but one cannot expect to have everything.)

Mike