Kaz wrote:

> You mean it's like many Kinai people have moved to Tokyo, and then
> Tokyo is now turning to be like the new Kinai?  I recall someone was
> insisting that today's Kinai is Tokyo and not Kansai in
> fj.soc.politics........
> But I think they are still immature in many parts of their behavior.

Well, most of the human race has yet to grow up! I hate to keep bringing
this up, but calling people "wanking tokyojaps" and "disgusting dog-eating
gooks" doesn't strike me as particularly "adult" behaviour.

> i think those people in newer developped land like Kanto or Sepponia
> often look wild and aggressive to Kinai type traditional matured
> people. And that's why the Tokyo dialect is so offensive to many Kinai
> people. Tokyo dialect often reminds Kinai people as the immature
> rustics in undeveloped land. The conflict between Kansai and Kanto,
> which has been lasted for long time in this country, is caused by such
> language and social behavior issues.

Rather like England, then, where it is said, "Every time an Englishman opens
his mouth another one laughs"?

> Many Kinai people still can't
> accept the sloppy behavior of Tokyo people such as making big noise
> when they eat Soba, or eating sushi with fingers.....etc.

I find slurping soba rather distasteful, but I hadn't noticed that people in
other parts of Japan do it less than people in Tokyo. Are you sure this is
just a Tokyo thing? Could we have a show of hands, please, from people
living in other corners of Japan? Do they slurp their noodles or not (spare
us the sordid details; a simple yes or no will suffice!)?

As for the sushi business, my understanding was that sushi was originally
intended (in the 18th century or thereabouts) to be eaten with the fingers,
and that later on people became more fastidious and started eating it with
chopsticks. Perhaps someone who knows more about the history of Japanese
food than I do will set me straight. My observation, by the way, is that
most people in Tokyo use chopsticks.

> I was aware that many British dislike Sepponians just like Kinai folks
> do to Tokyo folks with some complicated feeling structured by some
> sort of envy toward the energetic new world and some sort of contempt
> against the immature new world, two diametrically different sentiments
> mixed together. Funny phenomenon common to both Kinai is that while
> they despise those people in their newer lands as vulgar, such
> pro-baseball fan like Hanshin freaks or some pro-foot ball freaks like
> hooligans act really vulgar and wild. They both look like they have
> nothing else in their lives besides being such crazy sports freaks....
> because of the declination of their society and economy situation
> caused by its shifting the main power to their new world.

Yes, such feelings of dislike are complicated, contradictory, motivated
partly by jealousy and undermined by equally (if not more) fatuous behaviour
on the part of the people who harbour them. How can the land that produced
hooligans complain about the barbarism of the New World? And how can you,
with all your appalling insults, say that Tokyoites are vulgar?

Human beings truly are peculiar creatures!

> Academically analyzing, I think the world's main power has already
> moved to the Pacific sides. The common thing to both Tokyo and
> Sepponia is they both face to the Pacific. Kanto-Tokai region is the
> Pacific region of Japan while Kinai is more like the inland-sea and
> the Japan Sea region which is facing to the Eurasian continent. Kinai
> civilization has been looking down on the Pacific civilization ever
> since the ancient times and the pacific world is a completely unknown
> world to the Kinai civilization. Even in Sepponia, west coast facing
> to the Pacific is more growing than the east coast of Sepponia. East
> coast of Sepponia is getting like Kinai and is also declining. I
> analyze there as Sepponian version of Shitamachi of Tokyo. Shitamachi
> region of Tokyo has somewhat Kinai civilization which had been
> transmited in the Edo era, but Tokyo has turned its civilization
> centered in the other new side of Tokyo after the Meiji restoration.

Well, I'll think about it, but I'm beginning to get the feeling that seeing
everything in Japan as analogous to things going on elsewhere on the planet
has its weak sides as well as its appeal. It does help to understand things
if one can find parallels and similarities, but it takes away from the sense
of uniqueness if one sees everything in terms of something else.

I'll look at your analysis with more seriousness when Los Angeles (or San
Francisco?) becomes the seat of the US government!

--
John
http://rarebooksinjapan.com