Path: ccsf.homeunix.org!ccsf.homeunix.org!news1.wakwak.com!nf1.xephion.ne.jp!onion.ish.org!news.heimat.gr.jp!taurus!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail From: qed100@hotmail.com (Mark Martin) Newsgroups: sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.physics.electromag,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,fj.sci.matter Subject: Re: . Karavashkin's Nobel . Date: 5 Feb 2004 10:31:37 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 50 Message-ID: <7d087978.0402051031.1aa2297b@posting.google.com> References: <1cz63pwj40o8r.dlg@x.Jeff.Relf> <7d087978.0402021106.773764c2@posting.google.com> <79094630.0402050043.67e95e0e@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.188.209.112 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1076005897 12159 127.0.0.1 (5 Feb 2004 18:31:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 18:31:37 +0000 (UTC) Xref: ccsf.homeunix.org fj.sci.matter:87 double-a@hush.com (Double-A) wrote in message news:<79094630.0402050043.67e95e0e@posting.google.com>... > The Sun even currently shoots solar fares high above its surface. > Some of the particles from them even reach the Earth. I believe > sunspots are involved in this. > > When the Sun was spinning much faster, larger volumes of ejecta may > have been expelled, some of which might have cooled into asteroids. > While it is true that there initial orbits would have terminated back > in the Sun, if many were being ejected during a time of intense > sunspot activity, they might have interacted gravitationally with each > other so that while some still fell back, others were modified in > there orbits and stayed in orbit. Eventually they have collided with > each other to form larger more planetary like bodies. > > It's possible. No it's not. Not the way that you describe it. If all solar ejecta is on free-fall ballistic trajectories which return to the Sun, then no matter how the bits & pieces interact, the average trajectory will always return to the Sun. It's dynamically impossible for freely falling ejecta to "somehow" find itself in a stable orbit which bypasses the Sun. It takes some sort of further interaction to do that. Suppose that a planet is spewed from the Sun. Once it's on its own, that planet needs "assistance" to change its path from a Sun-returning to Sun-bypassing. The planet needs to spit out some ejecta of its own, or it needs to collide with another non-Sun-returning body in such a way as the ejectile-planet's momentum is changed just so. But if the ejectile planets issue their own sub-ejecta, then what's the likelyhood that they *just happen* to all tend to impart their delta-V at exactly the time place to put each of them into near circular orbits? Hmm? And if they all entered their present orbits by interacting with 3rd bodies, then [1]- what's the likelyhood that those interactions tended to impart delta-V's which place the ejectile planets on near circular orbits? [2]- If 3rd party non-Sun-returning objects are the key, then where'd they all come from to begin with? It then becomes necessary to propose a planet forming process which is independent of Solar ejecta, and this is the sort of model which is already avalailable. Now of course, one might say that this still doesn't preclude Solar ejecta as the source of at least -some- of the planetary objects. But then it's necessary to point out that, even though the Sun blasts huge tonnages of mass into space, that mass is still so rarified as to constitute a cleaner vacuum than is attainable in the laboratory. -Mark Martin