Path: ccsf.homeunix.org!ccsf.homeunix.org!news1.wakwak.com!nf1.xephion.ne.jp!onion.ish.org!gcd.org!vda-gw!news.moat.net!feeder.enertel.nl!nntpfeed-01.ops.asmr-01.energis-idc.net!216.196.110.149.MISMATCH!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: Declan Murphy Newsgroups: fj.life.in-japan Subject: Re: BBC reports on latest fads Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 20:58:29 +0900 Lines: 105 Message-ID: <41D7E1E5.601@hotmail.com> References: <327if2F3icdacU1@individual.net> <41C02D36.200@hotmail.com> <41C110DE.3060901@hotmail.com> <41C291CA.8060900@hotmail.com> <41C3F244.5070009@hotmail.com> <41C59154.1040104@hotmail.com> <41C63F34.8020309@hotmail.com> <41C6E8B9.2020908@hotmail.com> <41C7BE5C.6020509@hotmail.com> <41C85743.1080609@hotmail.com> <41C91AC6.2000808@hotmail.com> <7Mfyd.1111$g7.1061@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: individual.net EkcCT8mK+DcTmY/VTmQooQOLQ4B7yqUi+ZyDXnh/A07cIqKk2P User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en In-Reply-To: <7Mfyd.1111$g7.1061@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net> Xref: ccsf.homeunix.org fj.life.in-japan:23974 Simon wrote: > "Declan Murphy" wrote in message > news:41C91AC6.2000808@hotmail.com... > >>Simon wrote: >>>>Bullets or ballots Simon? Ordnance or order? >> >>Any chance of answering a simple question? > > Ok, as I'm against violence I'd prefer not to have the killings and > beatings. I'll take that as a general preference for a political solution then. >>>Count to 10 and take long deep breaths. >>>No matter what you say I do feel offended by people quoting republican >>>songs. >> >>Then either grow up or get yourself some ear plugs. >> >>Oh Lord our God arise, >>Scatter our enemies, >>And make them fall > > My point is that when you quote the same lines as the terrorists don't be > surprised if people make the obvious assumptions. You are over sensitive. The lines I quoted above are from "God save the Queen". Nobody I know would assume people singing the British national anthem are advocating violence and murder everytime they sing it. Similarly, no one I know singing "Kevin Barry" or an Orange dirge like "The Boyne Water" (below), does so with similar thought to the actual lyrics. Assuming they are sober enough to remember the lyrics of course. Most of us hum and mumble where necessary. "King William called his officers, saying: Gentlemen, mind your station, And let your valour here be shown before this Irish nation, My brazen walls let no man break, and your subtle foes you'll scatter" >>Even if you can't forget, its about time you managed to forgive. > > Its not for me to forgive, that can only be done by their victims. Take a hint from some of the victims then, and make a donation http://www.soetrust.co.uk/ http://www.childrenforpeace.org/ >>>So I'm sorry but I find songs like the one you quoted very offensive. The >>>people who planted those bombs like to quote songs like that also. They >>>think they're heroes fighting for the cause. >> >>Yes, no doubt some/most of them do/did. Even Rusty Spence. But if the >>experience of the ROI from 1921 is any guide, remove the cause and you can >>remove the fighting. > > Yes but how do you satisfy both sides, if you unify Ireland the loyalists > won't exactly thank you, and if you don't the republicans will eventually > start bombing again. You don't need to "unify Ireland" in order to satisfy both sides. The first step in the right direction was made when each extreme finally agreed with the bulk of middle-of-the-road nationalist/unionist opinion that the first thing to get rid of was the winner take all mentality. > Where's the middle ground when the goals of each side are so opposed. 71.2% of people in Northern Ireland voted "Yes" during the referendum on the Good Friday Agreement. Thats a pretty substantial middle ground. As a percentage of the nationalist's votes, the "Yes" was even higher. > I honestly would like to see a peaceful Ireland, but I can't see it > happening, at least not until the current leaders have gone. Who better than the current leaders? It *has* to be them. The Ulster Unionist, SDLP and Sinn Fein leadership have all agreed on the basics. Pretty much the only opposition left to the Good Friday process are 20 or so (unfortunately armed) freaks who have defected from the Provisional IRA, and on the other side - the Paisleyites. I'm not particularly worried about the political influence of the splitters, but if a rabble rouser like Paisley and his hardline followers can be brought into a state somewhat equivalent to sanity then crap like the following will be a thing of the past: "We are not here to play games. We are here to save Ulster. If the parade doesn't go down Garvaghy Road, there will be civil commotion to an extent the authorities cannot handle." Ian Paisley, July 7, 1996 Part of that "civil commotion" involved the murder of by arson of the 3 Quinn boys in Ballymoney. The main unionist newspaper (The Belfast Telegraph) wrote against the campaign to march... "Did they really not know that once they had set their protest in motion the bigoted extremists would embark on an orgy of lawbreaking and destruction?" Unfortunately, the wisdom displayed in that editorial was written after the deaths. But as I wrote above, who better than the current leaders? It just *has* to be them. -- Non gratum anus rodentum