Path: ccsf.homeunix.org!ccsf.homeunix.org!news1.wakwak.com!nf1.xephion.ne.jp!onion.ish.org!news.daionet.gr.jp!news.yamada.gr.jp!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.freenet.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Declan Murphy <declan_murphy@hotmail.com> Newsgroups: fj.life.in-japan Subject: Re: Politicians block comic over 'fake' Nanjing Massacre tale Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:53:57 +0900 Lines: 84 Message-ID: <4178A075.8080504@hotmail.com> References: <73fde4f0.0410141040.6f70a6c4@posting.google.com> <41727888.E5AB9CBC@yahoo.co.jp> <2tfcogF1tpa1iU1@uni-berlin.de> <41728233.6387EFD5@yahoo.co.jp> <BD99130D.29716%eschaal@max.hi-ho.ne.jp> <ckvgi9$jfl$1@newsflood.tokyo.att.ne.jp> <BD99B34D.29795%eschaal@max.hi-ho.ne.jp> <cl2759$e9d$1@newsflood.tokyo.att.ne.jp> <4174E6F7.11BF52EF@yahoo.co.jp> <cl53b2$lc3$1@newsflood.tokyo.att.ne.jp> <4176437B.2672E84A@yahoo.co.jp> <cl5ous$pdm$1@news.Stanford.EDU> <41767863.7000602@hotmail.com> <cl6tvu$qae$4@news.Stanford.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de K5lG9Z3odLrbKb3Qj61C5gahK+/nyByKpq5+a/nz+ybWCwG2Xg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en In-Reply-To: <cl6tvu$qae$4@news.Stanford.EDU> Xref: ccsf.homeunix.org fj.life.in-japan:19959 mtfester@netMAPSONscape.net wrote: > Declan Murphy <declan_murphy@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>mtfester@netMAPSONscape.net wrote: >> >>>Eric Takabayashi <etakajp@yahoo.co.jp> wrote: >>> >>>>So why don't Americans hate Americans who commit atrocities, demanding the >>>>same be done to them as those darn Japs? (eg, recall handling of My Lai >>>>Massacre) >>> >>>Speaking of that, do you know HOW My Lai was stopped? If so, how does >>>that square with your statement above? > >>My Lai was stopped? > > Yes. The killings continued for more than 2 hours after Hugh Thompson's (partially successful) attempts to stop (a very small part) of the massacre. As with the other 20thC massacres I listed (below), My Lai unfortunately did not stop until it had run its course and the company exhausted (and in the case of quite a few soldiers, out of ammunition clips). More than 70% of the villagers were killed, most of the others wounded, discipline to all intents and purposes non-existent. Its unlikely that the civilians in either Nanjing or My Lai would have been able to tell the difference. >>Do you mean it was stopped in the same way that Nanking was stopped? > > "Hugh Thompson, by now almost frantic, saw bodies in the ditch, > including a few people who were still alive. He landed his helicopter > and told Calley to hold his men there while he evacuated the civilians. > Thompson told his helicopter crew chief to "open up on the Americans" if > they fired at the civilians. He put himself between Calley's men and > the Vietnamese." If Thompson had not been outranked by both Calley and Medina, if there had not been a total breakdown of discipline, if... well as always there are a lot of ifs. Naturally Thompson was treated shabbily by those who should have known better. And it is not as if My Lai was an isolated incident. > I am unaware of Japanese troops putting a stop to their fellow troops' > killings. That you are unaware of efforts made by some Japanese officers, MPs and in some cases NCOs, does not mean that they did not take place. In the literature (including many primary sources) there are numerous examples. If your Japanese is limited, you can find a reference or two even in John Rabe's diary. Maybe Askew's forthcoming books will shed a bit of light on why these kind of massacres happened, and why they continue to do so. >>>And what did Japan do following Nanking? > >>Followed the script. Applaud the courage of the perpetrators, >>congratulate the units involved, and attack the patriotism of those who >>ask inconvenient questions. > > No, they instituted the comfort women program. Brothels organized and regulated by MPs existed long before Nanjing, just as was the case in Vietnam well before My Lai and other atrocities. >>When thinking of responses to Nanjing, No >>Gun Ri, My Lai/Co Luy/My Khe, Derry, or Srebrenica & Dvor etc, I wonder >>if there is a universal "ready to use" template. > > Apparently not. I see no difference. In each of the above atrocities, the perpertrators were unable to differentiate between enemy combatant and enemy civilian, had taken casualties, were angry & scared, ill-disciplined & poorly led. In each case the forces that participated in the atrocities were commended after the event for their courage, and in many cases key participants and others in the chain of command promoted. In each and every case anyone who questioned the official line was ostracised for long after the event. We haven't seen the last of these. -- Prolly the most tightly targetted spam I've ever received - 2004/OCT/21 http://www.clicks.ne.jp/products/kyoninkapro/nyukan/