Giny wrote:

> Eric,
>
> I think you did not read my posting well.
> I have lived in Japan for 7 years and I found and find that I was the one
> who ahd to adjust herself, which does not mean that I have no rights as a
> foreigner in Japan.
> Here in the Netherlands foreigners have the same rights as Dutch pepople
> except the right to vots for the Parliament.
> They do have the right of vote for municipal government.
> All other rights are exactly the same as for Dutch people.

Excellent. This is why I tell people that countries like the Netherlands and in
northern Europe, not the US, lead the world in respecting human rights.

Which is not to say that these countries are the best in the world. Even the
annual UN reports change their assessments regularly.

> I am not stating that foreigners make problems, I said that especially Dutch
> people in the old neighbourhoods feel to lose their way of life.

So properly assign blame to modern society for not living like previous
generations, or your parents for not raising you with the same values and
traditions, not a tiny minority of foreigners there at the invitation of your
government or employers.

> I said that it is NOT good to ignore their needs and problems.

Yes, that's right.

And I said to ALSO consider the needs and problems of the minority foreigners,
probably mostly properly documented, as opposed to you or others focusing only
on negative aspects such as alleged crime or unemployment (for citizens),
because it is YOU who say that foreigners have the same rights as citizens in
your country (except certain elections).

So consider them equally, and treat them equally. Foreigners must fit in.
Citizens must accommodate them, change their own minds and perhaps alter their
own lifestyles.

> Most of the Turcs and Moroccons that came to our country are of the lowest
> social class and many are illiterate.

Irrelevant. YOU are the one claiming they have equal rights.

Tell it to your politicians or employers who invite them in legally.

> They bring wives/husbands to our country as well and most of them are
> illitarate too.

See above.

> This causes a lot of social friction and it is very difficult to create a
> good balance.

See above. It is views like yours which only consider the needs or "problems"
of locals or citizens who make it difficult to create a good balance.

> After the attacks on Amerika, many people fear some aspects of the muslim
> religion. They know with their head that this is not good, but with their
> feeling it is hard to understand as there are many problems in the world
> with Moslims and Moslim radicalism is growing.

And guess what? What you see happening in the US now, and the international
anti Muslim backlash since the focus on terror, is wrong, too. Don't bring up
terror or events in the US to defend any anti-foreign, anti-Muslim views.

By the way, what "problems" with Muslims are you referring to? Please note I am
NOT referring to extremist groups which promote or practice terror, criticized
even by many common Muslims and clerics.

> We have had throuhg the centuries many, many immigrants and in iyr country
> most of them were welcome altough Jews begore the 2nd World War did not have
> the same rights in Europe, which we  the post-war generation are very amazed
> and shocked.
> We always thought that only nazi-Germany was very bad, but we found out that
> most Jews in Europe did not have the same rights as the original people.

How people have been wrongly abused through the centuries, has nothing to do
with the need for you and other people in the Netherlands to respect the rights
of, and to consider the needs of, and to solve any problems foreigners have,
such as needing service in their own languages or in a manner they are
accustomed to (as opposed to mainly focusing on problems they allegedly cause).

> I started this thread to find out sincerely whether there are problems like
> this in Japan as well

Yes, there are.

> but ended by being accused of a fascist or a person who is prejudiced.

I can't imagine why someone promoting or justifying anti-foreign, anti-Muslim
views would be accused of that.

I'm still waiting for you to consider how to better serve foreigners in the
Netherlands, whom YOU claim have equal rights as citizens (except to vote in
certain elections), as opposed to focusing on the negative aspects of
immigrants or immigration (or Turks, Moroccans, or Muslims in general), to
provide this "balance" you speak of.

> If I would be just prejudiced I would not care less and would not think about
> the problems minorities in our countries AND problems facing most European
> citizens.

So please tell me about the problems facing minorities in your country or the
rest of Europe, and what the governments and local citizens should do to help
minorities.

If Turkey, for example, were part of the EU, would you and others simply accept
them as fellow Europeans and drop this thinly veiled racism against
non-Europeans/non-whites or people of a religion different from yourselves? Why
is it any less of a "problem" for the Netherlands if, instead of "low class"
Turks and Moroccans, you suddenly had a high proportion of white Christian
European people from Spain, Italy, or Poland, who happened not to speak your
languages or understand your traditional lifestyle very well, seeking jobs and
social services, or causing any crime? Why is it any less of a "problem" if a
large number of undereducated, unskilled people of your own country suddenly
migrated to middle or upper income areas, seeking jobs, social assistance, or
committing any crimes? Why is it any less of a "problem" if a large number of
young people or city dwellers of your own country, spread into rural, strongly
traditional areas, affecting the atmosphere or lifestyle there?