necoandjeff wrote:

> "Declan Murphy" <declan_murphy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:40BD40FA.80002@hotmail.com...
> 
>>In Japan the half-something is by definition half-foreign. And in the
>>Japanese context it doesn't matter if someone is half-czech or
>>half-slovak, since there are basically two ethnicities in the world,
>>nihonjin and gaigin.
>>
>>I understand what you are trying to say, but you are applying the
>>American context. Of course in that context the "half-something" has the
>>emphasis on the "something". You are talking about the context of a
>>country (sepponia) that specifically asks for race on official
>>documents. I have US citizens writing "Japanese-American" or "white,
>>non-hispanic" into the nationality section of their applications to
>>Yamasa because some of them are so damn confused about the clear
>>difference between ethnicity and nationality.
> 
> I agree that people in the U.S. are pretty screwed up but this doesn't
> really have anything to do with our discussion does it? When discussing the
> word "haafu" we are, by definition, discussing race aren't we?

Of course it has relevance to the discussion. The people in the thread
taking objection to the term so far are a) not a half themselves b) from
countries that have troubled histories with regards to racial issues and
c) applying the context from their country of origin to Japan without
relativity. No native Japanese speaker is going to jump through hoops
over the half-czech half-slovak example.

>>I agree pretty much with Rodney - you are perceiving the use of haafu in
>>Japanese to be negative, when in almost all daily usage a native speaker
>>of Japanese is using it as a positive or in the majority of cases simply
>>as a neutral statement. I've been a "half" all my life, my
>>half-kashmiri, half-french nephews and nieces will be what? Half-irish
>>or half-french when in Australia? half-australian or half-irish or
>>half-french when in India? Both? Whats next? Half-muslim? Who cares? -
>>they, like me, won't. And when they come to Japan for a visit they will
>>all be gaigin, and their cousins in Japan haafu-gaigin.
> 
> Ever heard a junior high student in Japan call another kid "haafu?" I think
> you are thinking only of the situations in which you have heard the word
> used and not all the situations in which the kids themselves hear it used.

Yes I've heard junior high school students use it. I've heard everybody
from kindergarten kids to grandmothers using it. It is a common word
now, especially in this city where 2.5% of the population and nearly 3%
of the elementary school age kids are foreign. In the vast majority of
cases it has been heard in a neutral context, in a handful of cases as a
positive. Over the years I've only heard two or three people using it
negatively, and from context it was a form of jealousy linking not so
much to their heritage itself, as to the opportunities (language skills,
overseas holidays, dual citizenship etc) they perceived it to offer.

> Look, I'm not "haafu" myself and I certainly use the word when discussing
> half-Japanese kids in Japanese with my wife, for example.

And I assume do so with a non-derogatory meaning.

> than a handful of people who are "haafu" and who have mixed feelings about
> the word. I would certainly refrain from using it when speaking to someone
> is "half" unless I knew they were comfortable with it. And it's not as if
> I'm going to get upset at everyone who uses the word "haafu" with respect to
> our kids once we have them. But, while I certainly don't plan on encouraging
> overly sensitive feelings about such things with our own kids, I suspect it
> will be an issue that will have to be dealt with at some point.

No normal person would of course use a word that they thought would
upset someone. *If* the kids themselves, who unlike us are native
speakers and mostly Japanese citizens take objection to it then the
Japanese language will quickly enough evolve other terms of use. Wait
ten years or so, then we will know.

The problem (where and when it exists) is stereotyping or discrimination
(for example banning non-native speakers of English from participating
in English speech contests because of a perceived advantage being
Brazilian may provide etc). As Rodney has more or less pointed out,
throwing a hissy fit over the accepted use of a neutral/positive word is
less helpful than encouraging people to think about the needs of an
individual kid.

-- 
"Oh don't give me none more of that Old Janx Spirit/ No, don't you give
me none more of that Old Janx Spirit/ For my head will fly, my tongue
will lie, my eyes will fry and I may die/ Won't you pour me one more of
that sinful Old Janx Spirit"