Reply-To: "Ray" From: "Ray" Newsgroups: japan.budo.judo References: <20021212185423.29691.00000013@mb-cv.news.cs.com> Subject: Re: Drop-knee Seionage Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:25:06 -0000 Lines: 39 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.78.146.63 Message-ID: <3e273f59@212.67.96.135> X-Trace: 16 Jan 2003 23:25:13 GMT, 213.78.146.63 Path: ccsf.homeunix.org!ccsf.homeunix.org!news1.wakwak.com!nf1.xephion.ne.jp!onion.ish.org!onodera-news!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed.news2me.com!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!212.67.96.135!213.78.146.63 Xref: ccsf.homeunix.org japan.budo.judo:121 The difference between drop Seoi-Nage & Seoi-Otoshi is fundamentally whether or not you lift or pull down your opponent. The hand, foot or knee positions are irrelevant. It is still an Otoshi if you come in for a normal Seoi-Nage, meet resistance and drop onto your knees, squat or whatever, providing that at no time of actual Kake do you lift.The opposite is also true your original Tsukuri can be created by dropping down but if at any stage you lift your opponent to make the throw, it reverts back to Seoi-Nage. Kuzushi is the initial breaking of the balance or posture in order to make him susceptible to an attack. Both Seoi- Nage and Seoi-Otoshi require the same Kuzushi, I.E. Mamae-no-Kuzushi ( front breaking of posture). I think perhaps you may be confusing Kuzushi (breaking of the posture) this is fundamentally concerned with direction I.E where you are taking your opponent, with Tsukuri (creating the technique), this is how you break the balance, what your hands, feet & body are doing to break the balance in that direction. I hope you consider my answer and look forward to possible discussion, Ray. "Jigotai" wrote in message news:b05q1n$lsnm3$1@ID-113466.news.dfncis.de... > > "R Hunziker" escribió en el mensaje > news:fxednb8JlYOKBYSjXTWcog@reliant.com... > > I would think part of the problem is whether uke has been properly trained > > in zempo kaiten ukemi. > > > > What is the difference between "drop-knee seoi nage" and "seoi otoshi"? > > Diferences between seoi-nage y seoi-otoshi are only kuzushi. In Seoi-otoshi, > we suddenly change the movement of kuzushi as if we cut the air with our > hands. Please, visit kodokan web site. I think you think that seoi otoshi is > seoi nage with knees on mat, don't you? > >