cc wrote:

> "Eric Takabayashi" <etakajp@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
>
> > Untrue. Or there would not be the commute. What is the massive public
> > transportation in Osaka for, gaijin tourists?
>
> For people commuting to work and, yeah, for tourism.

So I guess, not just "anyone" in Osaka lives within 1.5 km of work, school,
shopping, or hospitals like I do, eh?

> > > There are shops and services everywhere.
> >
> > Not the ones the people want, obviously, otherwise they would not need
> such as
> > Kansai Walker to tell them where to go and how to get there.
>
> Kansai Walker is a magazine of tourism (you can even get the Chinese
> edition).
> That doesn't mean people want to live next to tourist attractions and fancy
> shopping areas. And even when they do, they go somewhere else on week-ends.

So I guess they don't live within walking distance like I do, eh?

> > > Commuting for work can be longer or shorter, that depends of the job and
> the
> > > personal situation,
> >
> > I bet most Osaka people live more than 1.5 km from school
>
> Unless they attend private schools, all kids go to kindergarten in
> mamachari, then walk to school until the age of 18.

Within 1.5 km? But recall my children's nursery school (not the nearest) is
within 300 m, and there is an elementary school within 200 m, and also a junior
high school about that distance in the other direction. There are also other
public elementary and junior high schools (plural) not as near, still within
1.5 km.

> >or work,
>
> Already said that. I don't believe nobody works further than 1.5 km in
> Fukuyama.

They do. There are people who work in Hiroshima, and people who drive two hours
or more from the mountains. We are talking about my convenience, not theirs.
You, for some reason, are claiming that "anyone" in Osaka has a life as
convenient as mine, or even more so, and pay or can pay comparable amounts in
rent for the same convenience.

> Here too, the bachans do baitos in their areas, the shop-owners and little
> family business live where they work.

We are not talking about them. You claim that "anyone" in Osaka lives as
conveniently as I do, which is patently untrue.

> Certain persons have the luck to find
> a steady job in their field at walking distance.

And I am one.

> The 30% left take public transportation.

Are you claiming 70% of people in Osaka live within walking distance of work?

Please define walking distance. For me, 1.5 km, or less than one mile, about 20
minutes; or about 10 minutes by bicycle, is walking distance.

> 1 million of persons live 1 km around here, that makes 300
> 000 commuters at least everyday.

Yes, there are over 5 million people living in Osaka. That does not mean 70%
work within walking distance.

> During the last 3 years, my work place was maybe 4 km away from my living
> place (5 minutes of train).

So not even your life is/was convenient as mine. I guess you are not included
in "anyone" in Osaka.

> In fact, I don't want to meet my students when I
> go to the combini in sport clothes.

I go to work in long sleeved shirts, a necktie, pressed slacks, and leather
shoes.

> > and do not
> > understand why you are in such denial about Osaka
>
> I live here.

Then why don't you understand that people there have to commute to work longer
than I do, or that big cities are spread out, instead of claiming that "anyone"
in Osaka, or at least 70% of them, can do as I do?

> > That is correct, though there is a public bus now.
>
> I know, we'd wait for the bus, and there were always cars that stopped to
> give us a lift.

Not recommended, even if people look friendly.

> > And if you consider where I live to be a "muddy island"
> > and are too cheap to
> > rent a car or do other than walk or hitchhike, and think that
> "restaurants" are
> > so rare and far apart, you don't need to stay there a week, or go at all.
>
> I don't drive. In fact, neighbours lent us a car on a day that was too rainy
> to do something else, that was enough.  And I don't complain about my stay.
> I found that more interesting to walk in the mud. I have no problem to adapt
> myself to a simpler life when I'm in a rural place. I didn't go there to see
> shops, restaurants or modern transportation.

Then don't claim or point out how rural Hawaii is, when we are talking about
convenience of cities. I said inconvenience is one reason I do not live in the
area where I grew up, a 30 minute drive from work, shopping and school.

> That was just to say you should be the one used to do tens of minutes to go
> to a
> restaurant or supermarket !

I don't need to go tens of minutes to go to a restaurant or supermarket in
Fukuyama. I don't even need five, because even 200 m, or less than 300 m, will
take me to numerous places.

> > Let
> > them make their billions of travel dollars off people who are willing to
> try to
> > understand or appreciate it.
>
> Tourists that don't spend the day overpaying tons of gadgets and staying in
> deluxe hotels are not welcome ?

People that bitch about it, don't need to go. I don't come from a "muddy
island" without a restaurant other than McDonald's within 15 km. This is merely
your ignorance showing, as when you deny what is plain to see about the medical
system, or how spread out large Japanese cities are. Please note that Osaka
extends beyond 1 km of what you call "here", there are millions of other Osaka
people who need to travel to the place you call "here", and it takes longer for
them, than it takes me to do what I want.

> That's exactly the attitude in Waikiki and
> the reason why I didn't stay there more than 30 minutes.

Waikiki doesn't need people who bitch about it either. I explicitly tell
Japanese NOT to go to Waikiki, but to get out of the city and areas popular
with other Japanese. I also ask them if they have considered other than Hawaii.

Because I don't like Hawaii, or Hawaii doesn't need the money? No, because I
want people to appreciate other things that matter about Hawaii, or to realize
that a vacation is more than shopping or going to Hawaii. If all Japanese
suddenly decide to go hitchhiking around southeast Asia, that's too bad for
Hawaii, but very good for Japanese.

> > The car is only used perhaps once a month.
> > You do not know what to do with a car, despite not needing one for daily
> life?
>
> I can take a taxi once a month.

I don't take taxis to Hyogo, islands off Hiroshima city, or Tokyo.

> If I liked driving, I could rent a sport car
> for a week-end every month. That would still be cheaper than buying one and
> paying the insurances, shaken, parking, etc.

That's not what my bank account tells me for the past six years. Perhaps
parking, for example, is a little more expensive than my 4,000 yen per month in
Osaka.

> > Perhaps you do not understand the Japanese craving for premium brands,
>
> Oh, I do. But you are the one that said he doesn't care for that sort of
> things.

I don't. The most exclusive brands I own are two old pairs of Nikes, and two
pairs of Levi's.

But I know that Japanese do care about brands and trends, which is why people
in large cities need to travel longer to their popular shopping areas in their
big cities, than I do to get to Fukuyama's most popular shopping districts,
which you for some inexplicable reason, deny.

> > We are not talking about you. I am talking about the crowds of city people
> or
> > young people in general as I have actually seen, who feel the need to be
> in
> > such places,
>
> You've seen crowds of people that feel the need to live less than 1.5 km
> from Dotombori ?

No, I see crowds of people who travel longer than 1.5 km to be in such places,
which you for some reason, deny.

> In fact, I have taught there for a while, maybe 5 years ago. Many people
> that work there are glad to live elsewhere.

EXACTLY. AND GUESS WHAT? IT TAKES LONGER IN BIG CITIES, THAN MY 10 OR 20
MINUTES IN FUKUYAMA, TO GET TO WORK, SCHOOL OR SHOPPING. WHY DON'T YOU GET IT?

> In season, 50% of the people in
> the street are not from Osaka (tourists like you, or from other places in
> Kansai).  Only a bunch of teenagers and attarded teenagers are standing
> there all the time, and they do it during a few months before getting tired
> of it. Of course, the yakuza are residents.
> The other persons are people that go there once in while to meet friends, do
> leisure shopping or attend events. That used to be more trendy. The same
> persons also go to Umeda, to Kyobashi, to Sannomiya, etc for their
> entertaiment. What makes you think they all dream of living next to
> Dotombori ? TV shows ?

I never claimed they dreamed of living there. I KNOW they live much farther
away, unlike you claiming ANYONE lives within 1.5 km. I said they needed
considerable time to TRAVEL there, which you repeatedly deny.

Would you care to re read what I and you have written?

I merely said large cities are too spread out.
I merely pointed out that I live much nearer to all I need, downtown, the
shinkansen station, City Hall, the city's main shopping districts, than big
city people, and it takes me much less time to get there, just over 20 minutes'
walk at most, or ten minutes by bicycle. I don't need a train or bus, unlike
big city people. For my health, I could even do without the bicycle for a mere
one mile walk.

For some reason, you get defensive about Osaka, and denied it all, claiming
"anyone" in Osaka lived as conveniently and near all they need, as I, and could
even do so as cheaply.

> >which, incidentally, is not 1.5 km from where you claim all Osaka
> > people live.
>
> I claimed what ?

Eric: "Right now, I can walk 1.5 km to work, the city's largest shopping areas
in various directions, the bus terminal, and the shinkansen station. Within
maybe 300 meters, there are seven hospitals including one of 600 beds, and high
school hidden somewhere, a nursing college, my children's nursery school, two
supermarkets, the main police station, and restaurants. City Hall and the
employment office are two blocks from the train station. The City and National
hospitals, as well as many others offering emergency service, are about
three kilometers away. The highway IC and the Immigration Bureau are three or
four kilometers away."

You: "Same for me. Same for anyone in Osaka."

This cannot possibly be true. For example, please see where Osaka's Shinkansen
stations are on a map, and tell me "anyone" in Osaka can walk it within 1.5 km
from their homes. Also note where Osaka's various main shopping districts are,
such as Dotonbori or America Mura, and note the large population not living
within 1.5 km, as I do in Fukuyama.

> > > >If you don't live in that part of
> > > > Osaka, you're out of luck. 30 minutes by train or bus.
> > >
> > > You talk like my students
> >
> > I do not care about trends and fashion like your students do,
>
> You confuse touristic/entertainment places with places where people actually
> want to live and work.

Not "want" to work. Where people actually do work in large cities, which is not
a 20 minute walk from their homes.

I did not claim that people wanted to LIVE near America Mura or Dotonbori. I
claimed that my life was more convenient than if living in a large city,
because large cities are too spread out, but I can live nearby cheaply. And
where I live is not crowded, busy or trendy, either. It is a residential area.

> Like the Japanese tourists in Paris do !

Yes, I know the attitude many Japanese have, which is precisely why I am
telling you despite all your denial, that I am able to live much more
conveniently because everything is so near by in Fukuyama, and likely cheaper.

> > I have been to large urban areas in Japan where people actually live and
> work,
> > since 1989. And by the look at the pedestrian and street traffic, they do
> not
> > live 1.5 km from everything they need, contrary to your claims, nor do
> they pay
> > 67,000 a month for the privilege.
>
> Very strange they don't all want to move to Fukuyama.

Japanese do not want to move to Fukuyama, they want to live, work, shop and/or
go to school, in large urban areas, and must spend more time than I do to
commute, and more money than I do, to live.

But you are unable to understand this, when all it should take is a simple look
at a map or real estate magazine.

> Oh, maybe they want, but don't tell me !

I am not telling anyone to come to Fukuyama. I don't want many people to come
to Fukuyama, lest it become like one of the large spread out cities. The
neighboring city of Kurashiki has already suffered this fate, because people
would like, perhaps, to work at one of the automobile plants on the coast.
Despite having a mere 150,000 people, it is approximately 16 kilometers between
train stations inside Kurashiki, with almost exclusively low rise buildings
even in the center of town, meaning people have no choice but to rely on public
transportation, or drive to get around.

I am merely saying my life is more convenient (and cheaper) than in a large,
spread out city, which for some reason, you are unable to understand or
believe, despite, as you say, living and working in Osaka for years yourself
and having the truth in front of your face.