Jim wrote:

> Eric Takabayashi wrote:
> > Jim wrote:
> >
> >>I know that in the USA, your ethnic background doesn't matter one whit when
> >>determining citizenship...
> >
> > Incorrect. Americans and others, as I have mentioned, have their own notions of what
> > "Americans" look or act like, or where they are born.
>
> I was just making the argument that in the USA, it would be difficult to have
> a "non-Americans not allowed" sign in a place of business.

Yes. That is why the majority of racists probably keep their intentions or feelings hidden. It
would be a stupid white person to put a "Whites Only" sign outside their business. This does not
mean that blacks and other minorities are free to do as they please, however.

> And have the court system ignore any protests about the sign/policy.

You mean if it is reported or contested, like at men's clubs without women, or country clubs
without black members.

> In Japan, it seems that a "non-Japanese not allowed" policy at the door is not as frowned
> upon.

Yes, and Japan is what we are talking about.

> > I'm a native born American. And people, including Americans, still don't believe it. I
> > am almost invariably mistaken for a Japanese tourist when I return home, where people
> > greet me with "Irasshaimase!" when I walk into a business, then turn away when I tell
> > them I am not Japanese. Once when I took my sick daughter in to the local hospital, the
> > hospital I have been to since childhood, the woman even derisively referred to me as a
> > "Japanese tourist" without insurance, not a US citizen or Hawaii resident who was paying
> > cash.
>
> We all have our crosses to bear.  The "ugly Americans" have pretty much spoiled many
> countries that I might want to visit because I somewhat resemble them,

Then you should understand such a problem full well, and not have to make excuses for Japanese
and their narrow-mindedness, ignorance, or outright discriminatory ideas or practices.

> much like the visiting Japanese tourists have made your life a bit difficult in Hawaii.

I do not blame Japanese tourists for my problem. I blame narrow-mindedness, ignorance or racists
in the US. And unfavorable treatment of foreigners in Japan is not the fault of Americans in
Japan, either, because you may notice the vast majority of foreigners in Japan, the "low status"
ones who are subject to such treatment as being harassed by police or assaulted by Japanese
racists, are not white or American, and discrimination has continued since before American
contact. I much prefer being an Asian looking American in Japan, to being an Asian national or
descendant of Chinese or Korean resident aliens.

> And now Bush & Co. have made travel to a lot of the world a dangerous proposition for Whitey.

No, bigots and zealots in those countries make travel a dangerous proposition.

> >>>The more common examples of naturalized Japanese such as
> >>>ethnic Asians (who may have lived here since they were born and ONLY culturally
> >>>Japanese) or people who have deliberately assimilated themselves such as Rui Ramos,
> >>>Musashimaru, Akebono or KONISHIKI, should be respected and not considered "gaijin".
> >>
> >>So you *are* agreeing with most Japanese that if you look and talk like a native,
> >>you're not a gaigin but Japanese?
> >
> > No, I clearly say things like ethnic Samoan people from Hawaii who come up in the strict
> > traditional sumo culture are more "Japanese" than most native born Japanese alive. Can
> > you read?
>
> Yeah, I can read.  Can you write?  I'm not a mind reader.  Please point out where you
> "clearly say things like ethnic Samoan people from Hawaii who come up in the strict
> traditional sumo culture are more "Japanese" than most native born Japanese alive".

The post you responded to, when I brought up the foreign sumo wrestlers right at the top.

> In this thread;  I haven't read all your postings over the past few years.
> >
> >>And all those people who dont't look, act and
> >>speak like Japanese shouldn't be respected, either?
> >
> > I said they SHOULD be respected as Japanese and NOT considered gaijin as clearly written
> > above.
>
> I felt you wrote they should be respected as Japanese because of their efforts to
> assimilate, and conversely that people who *don't* try to assimilate aren't worthy
> of respect.

Remember that in the post you responded to, I pointed out that Debito is JAPANESE.

So you can read. Can you remember?

> Hence my comment.

Because you cannot remember back one post. I watched Memento last week. Such a life must be a
problem for you.

> > So let's get back to you asking me if I am American. What did you mean by that?
>
> Well, I didn't know if you kept your American citizenship or not,

I am an American citizen, because Americans are born that way, and I have never changed it, nor
taken up citizenship of any other nation.

Why do you believe I have done anything otherwise, or am anything but an American citizen?

> and  I still don't. I don't know if you think like Debito and pretend you can switch your
> heritage by getting a new passport.

It's NOT about heritage. It has nothing to do with heritage. That is why I make references to
"culturally" American, etc., because no, you cannot change your ethnicity or heritage.

It's about citizenship and rights that should be legally protected, because they ARE laid out by
the laws of that country, which Japanese and you seem not to understand.

> And I really don't regard "American" as being much of anything \
> except a tax status. Others may be a bit more patriotic.

That's right. "American" as a label means not much at all, because it's just a piece of paper,
and people shouldn't read into it to mean white, Christian, eater of bread or potatoes,
warmonger, or anything else. Being a self identified "Republican" or "supporter of Bush", on the
other hand, does hold meaning.

> BTW, is there something in Japanese law that says it's OK to discriminate against non-Japanese
> citizens?

Not really. Rather, the LACK of an explicit law against it, as it is claimed by Japanese that
the Constitution only protects citizens. That is how law often works.

> Why does Debito feel that getting the Japanese passport
> makes his discrimination claims more valid?

Because he IS a citizen, protected by the Japanese Constitution, no matter how he looks.

> Do you have to be a Japanese citizen to sue someone in Japan?

No, as the lady Brazilian journalist proved after being kicked out of a Japanese business,
though it was the first time ever such a discrimination case was won.