Hi,

thanks for the elaboration...

<mtfester@netMAPSONscape.net> wrote:
> Al <al@privacy.ne.jp> wrote:
> > <mtfester@netMAPSONscape.net> wrote:
> > [...]
> >> [...] He
> >> grabbed my little fingers and started twisting. Now, this is illegal in
> >> judo, but not uncommon (though illegal) in BJJ, so suddenly I was in my
> >> happy place; the rules are really more "guidelines".
> > [...]
> >> He refused to work out with
> >> me after that, and started complaining LOUD that I was "too rough"
> >> (moi?) He started to complain to his coach, who started laughing at him.
> >> First, his coach told him not to grab fingers if he doesn't want to be
> >> beaten up.
> > [...]
> >> Anyway, afterwards, several people told me that grabbing fingers is very
> >> common among Japanese judoka.
>
> > So that guy's coach (also Japanese, ne?) knew exactly that grabbing your
> > finger was what got him in trouble, so i think this "grabbing fingers is
> > very common among Japanese judoka" line is rather lame... ;-)
>
> He didn't say that.

OK... and just for the record, i didn't say he did. :-)

> Several people who've fought tournaments in Japan
> said that. The coach thought the whole thing was funny.

Yes, that's exactly what i was referring to...

> > Can you clarify for me how i should interpret your comment "Now, this is
> > illegal in judo, but not not uncommon (though illegal) in BJJ [...] the
> > rules are really more 'guidelines'"?
>
> Pretty much as it is written. BJJ rules are quite frequently merely
> there to guide a ref through a difficult decision, rather than being
> something to be upheld at all costs.

OK... understood... and i guess i would then use the word "guidelines"
and not "rules" (since in my world, if people use the term "illegal" and
"rules" for something that is not being upheld where it could be upheld,
those words have no meaning)...

> As an example, I overheard the
> following snippet in a discussion at a tournament: "Yes, everybody
> knows it was illegal, but he tapped, so what can you do?"
>
> I have seen coaches grab their student's leg when they were on the
> edge of the mat and reposition it where they wanted it, during a fight.
>
> I have seen a competitor punch a ref (BAD idea in BJJ!), whereupon
> he was chased all over the gym by said ref, cornered hammered in the
> face several times, and made to finish the match.
>
> I have seen people knee-barred, heard the knee-baree complain that it
> was illegal in blue-belts' competition and heard the ref respond "If
> you don' like, you tap."
>
> Etc.

Right. I guess people have a choice: if someone doesn't like to compete
in situations where the rules aren't upheld, they can decide not to be
in those situations. Those, on the other hand, who like "no rules"
contests have a choice of venue as well. But the neither-fish-nor-flesh
stuff, arbitrary situations like the ones you describe, look a bit
ridiculous from my perspective. Just one person's opinion, of course...

Was at a Kyokushin tournament here in Naha recently and saw someone
disqualified for illegally punching his opponent in the head (actually,
it was more the soft of the neck below the head).

It's a personal thing: i am interested in seeing skill and discipline at
work, and rules applied accurately, and i am really only interested in
arts that do not intrinsically cause damage to the contestants (even
though they can, of course, be used to cause damage in real life attack
and defense situations). So i've never been to a boxing match or watched
any of the even grosser stuff. Kyokushin is about as far as it goes for
me - i went because a practicing friend of mine had invited me.

In any case, i am glad to meet someone like you who encourages his
offspring to learn a MA - although i regrettably don't have such skills
(well, at least not physically), i think that _all_ kids should get some
training as a matter of course: it does a lot for self-esteem, social
graces, safety, and health (fitness) consciousness.

Al

--