On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:52:04 +0900, Michael Cash
<mikecash@sunfield.ne.jp> wrote:

>So being able to recognize some objectionable traits of the country
>and its people, and having the temerity to give voice to them counts
>as racism? Is it your position that any negative comment on Japan/ese
>must come from the Japanese themselves and that others should hold
>their tongues?

No, my position for the Nth time is that racism is not an evil
exclusive to the Japanese. I denounce all racists of any
race/creed/culture.

> It strikes me that *that* position more strongly smacks
>of elitist racist bullshit than anything we may engage in.

Except that I don't hold that position.

>>I'm thinking maybe it's a different country you're living in or maybe
>>it's the fact that I personally try not to characterize entire
>>societies based on the actions of elements therein. I guess I prefer
>>to evaluate human beings on an individual basis. 

>Yes, you must be the only person who does so. This sort of conflicts
>with your "boisterous wiggahs" and "portly Aussies" comment above, but
>since those comments were (presumably) made about white people,
>they're okay. 

I regret those comments already. I'm human too and I should not write
when my mind is as clouded with anger as it was when I made those
foolish remarks. The portly thing was from pictures I saw on one of
the URLs I saw in someone's post with captions bearing the names of
posters here. As for wiggah I regret that I did not use the more
politically-correct White Afro-centric instead. 

>>Maybe its the fact
>>that I consider Japanese to BE human beings. 

>Again, that makes you unique. None of the rest of us consider them to
>be human beings. I had never noticed that before, and I can think of
>no comment we have made which would give cause anyone to think so. But
>if you say so, it must be true.

You're entitled to your racist opinion. 

>>but far from the ugly sprawling urban
>>centers. I live in the relative wilderness of Shikoku.
>
>And I live in the relative boonies of Gunma, but due to my work spend
>half my day out here in the sticks and half my day in the "ugly
>sprawling urban center" of Tokyo/Yokohama.
>
>That's awfully unfair, insensitive, and ELITIST of you to be so
>dismissive of sprawling urban centers, don't you think? If they are
>good enough for the Japanese who live in them, the Japanese who are
>human beings, by the way, then who are you to find fault with it? Why
>are you so dismissive of those urban areas and the Japanese human
>beings who live in them? I thought you viewed everyone on an
>individual basis, and yet you make dismissive, elitist comments on
>their choice of habitat. 

But I didn't dismiss them, Michael. I only said that I live far away
from them. I suggested that perhaps the locale was the reason you're
in a horrible version of Japan and I'm not sharing that experience.
That said, on the few occasions I have visited Tokyo I was very glad I
didn't live there.

>>I realize its probably an exercise in total futility to even try to
>>get started in a rational debate with racists. 

>I agree. It *is* an exercise in futility to attempt rational debate
>with racists. In this case, though, exactly *who* are the racists you
>refer to? As far as I can tell, the "racists" you take exception to
>tend to be people who have violated their deeply held irrational
>racist principles by intermarrying with Japanese, whom we consider not
>even to be human beings.

Are you married to a Japanese person or is that the Royal "we"? I had
to assume that any of the glad-handing gaijin racists posting in this
thread who ARE married to Japanese somehow granted them IMMUNITY from
non-human status very similar to the immunity Eric Takabayashi seems
to grant homeless Japanese from unkind ignorance. Either that or
indeed they violated their racist principles. Or maybe it's just a
case of "hey, I'll slap the original racist FIVE and then I'll be
accepted and cool too". They may not even believe in it. But it's good
to be on the winning team. 

Hey, I knew when I posted I was gonna get mass tackled like noone's
business, Michael. I didn't see much evidence of a dissenting opinion
in the thread before I piped up.

>I used to have to go to New Jersey in the course of my work, and I
>also had a highly unfavorable opinion of the place. It looks as though
>we have found a common ground upon which we can begin a productive
>dialog.

Where are you from so I can say I hate it if I do?

>>I don't think Japan's even beginning to win
>>that contest although I'm not ignorant to the fact that they have
>>their own ugly bits. Hate and ignorance abound in this world.

>And you seem not to have been exempted from the task of toting around
>your fair share of the load.

Looks can be deceiving.

>Please don't feel a need to restrain yourself. I am sure we well all
>enjoy reading your thoughts and may even benefit from them.

Thank you.

>If you have really been lurking on this group for quite a while, then
>surely you must be aware that this is one of those very rare times
>when we actually approach being on-topic. We very seldom discuss the
>place at all. In fact, over the years we have gotten far more grief
>from people who wander into and then quickly out of the group for
>*not* talking about Japan/ese more than we do. We've not lost any
>sleep over not having pleased those people, and I doubt that we'll
>lose any over not having pleased you either.

I wouldn't mind one bit if you never started talking about this again.
But then you don't much care about how I feel so we're even.

>What? You live in Japan-Wonderland down there in Shikoku and there is
>*nothing* negative or worthy of an occasional spleen-venting? Or do
>you just strictly follow your own policy of non-Japanese having no
>right to give voice to the negative? 

I often fantasize about firing rocket-propelled grenades into those
big black UYOKU buses with the rising sun flags and that bad blaring
music. What does that say about me??!

Again, I never said there was NOTHING negative or worthy of venting.
It was the elitist group glad-handing thing that pissed me off.

>There are lots of things I like about the place. Am I constrained to
>mentioning only those things?

No, but have you EVER mentioned them in here? 

>>We all live here 

>Actually, we don't all live here.

Thank you for the correction.

>>and last I checked it wasn't
>>mandatory to do so. Some of us have even MARRIED Japanese! 

>You want a prize or something? Here's a hint for ya: a lot of the ones
>you are complaining about here are also married to Japanese. The main
>one you seem to be taking offense to and labeling "racist" is in fact
>himself 100% racially indistinguishable from native-born Japanese,
>though he himself is a re-import from Hawaii.

No prize necessary, thanks.

Does hating your own race for whatever reason make you any less of a
racist? If so good point.

Raj