On Fri 01 Aug 2003 06:45:40p, Mike Wilcox <appraisers@sympatico.ca> wrote
in news:3F2AED94.11FEED81@sympatico.ca: 

> Omphalos wrote:
> 
>> On Fri 01 Aug 2003 03:10:22p, Mike Wilcox <appraisers@sympatico.ca>
>> wrote in news:3F2ABB1E.9A7C114E@sympatico.ca:
>>
>> > Omphalos wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri 01 Aug 2003 01:43:06p, rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer)
>> >> wrote in news:bge8r9$7bc$1@bolt.sonic.net:
>> >>
>> >>> Omphalos  <omphalos@wp.pl> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Pat Winstanley <wallopcods2003@yahoo.co.uk>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> omphalos@wp.pl says...
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Pat Winstanley must have been smoking the crackrock when he
>> >>>>>> wrote: 
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> If the government gives money away, then it is a government
>> >>>>>>>> handout.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> So the rich are getting a government handout in the US, are
>> >>>>>>> they? 
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> And what would that be?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Tax cuts! ;-))
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Wrong. Tax cuts are not government handouts.
>> >>>
>> >>> If you get more in services than you pay then you're getting a
>> >>> handout.
>> >>>
>> >>> And still I would like to see you explain why you want to pay more
>> >>> so that the very rich can pay less.
>> >>
>> >> First you explain how tax cuts make me pay more in taxes.
>> >
>> > What you quit paying in taxes you up paying more in user fees in the
>> > long run. Our experience here in Ontario, Canada when the
>> > Conservatives took power has been one of downloading costs right to
>> > the municipal level. The tax cuts resulted in a reduction of services
>> > and increased user fees for just about anything from garbage
>> > collection, libraries to local swimming pools as the local
>> > governments scrambled to raise money no longer available from the
>> > Province. It's a case of "Penny-wise, dollar foolish" as the
>> > neglected infrastructure falls to ruin for the lack of proper
>> > maintenance. You are starting to see it now in some states that are
>> > battling to balance their budgets. Already cut to the bone some are
>> > letting prisoners out early and cutting back on the school year.
>>
>> Here in the US, not everything is socialized like it is in Canada. The
>> government actually takes care of your garbage?
>>
>> Tax cuts have always increased federal revenues, but they take about 4
>> years to kick in. Most of the Bush tax cut hasn't even gone into effect
>> yet, but that hasn't stopped the liberals from crying doom and gloom.
> 
> Our Provincial tax cuts began in 1995 and have yet to "trickle down"
> ;~)) Garbage collection is a municipal service, but because of the tax
> cuts, money that would be transferred to the cities for a variety of
> reasons is less than needed to support standard services. This leaves
> the cities with three choices, raising municipal taxes, user fees or
> cutting services to cover the short fall. Most have already made cuts to
> the point of verging on neglect, so have made the compromise of some
> raising of municipal taxation and raising or adding new user fees. The
> end result in all of this is I'm paying more for municipal taxes and
> users fees for things that used to be part of city services, the
> services that are provided have been cut back and not the high quality
> they were previous to the cuts. 

Or they could just privatize the service and not have to worry about it
anymore. Services offered by the government are almost always lower in
quality than services offered by the private sector.