"Michael Wignall" <wigs@evangelion.com> wrote:
> "DBM" <dbmacpherson@uq.net.au> wrote:
> <Snip>
>
> Well I have some free time, so I'll bite.

I have a few things to add. Not much to alter Michael's POV, in fact I
think he answered everything rather well in his frustrating manner. This
is of course a reference to all that damn evidence! ;)

> Rei was created sometime _after_ March 30th, 2004 (Yui was 17
> when she "died" and was born in 1977)".

Are you sure she was 17? I was born in '77 and I seem to remember the
years '92 and '93 while I was 17.

> > However!  Could the comment refer to Yui's genetic material
> > already contained in the Clones, or some sort of 'Mental' or
> > other 'Personality Booster' derived from RNA encoded pieces
> > of memory in the soup Yui became, or even reverse-downloads
> > of data from the Core of Unit 1?  Tip the vat of Yui-Goop into
> > the Clone Tank, let everything simmer for as the Clones absorb
> > Yui's Humanity via electronic osmosis, & Hey Presto!  Instant
> > Personality!

If you claim that the subject has been reduced to the point where they no
longer have valid DNA samples or at least unusable ones then you certainly
imply that RNA is also a pointless reference.

> > It would also make more sense from a 'Bio Ethics' point of view
> >  - if Yui used her own DNA in making the Clones, she wouldn't
> > need permission from the DNA donor, & there would be less
> > chance of things boiling over when the subject of 'destructive
> > testing' came up...
>
> One thing you are missing is that Rei's origins are supposed to be
> a secret, even from SEELE. In episode 23, Fuyutsuki worries
> about what SEELE will do if they discover that Rei is alive. Rei
> is special, but no one is supposed to know that she is special.

Yes, the whole set up is secret not to mention that SEELE is a big
believer in the end's justify the means, like Gendo. Breaking ethical and
moral codes is not an issue where these people are concerned.

> Yes. The MP Evas must have souls to produce AT Fields,
> however they use only the Dummy Plugs, so they only "souls"
> in them are the souls of the Evas themselves, there are not living
> pilots in them.

Well living as a dog or cat lives. But no, there's no living soul there.

> > What of the seeming consciousness in the 'Soul-less' Clones
> > in the Dummy Plug Lab, the scene where Shinji speaks Rei's name,
> > & all of the Clones 'wake up' & smile at Shinji?
>
> That's a tough one. Personally I think it was just for affect, that the
> soulless Rei's are not aware at all.

Ever see a Dog run to it's master because of the friendly voice? Or even
up to a stranger?

Just so as you all know I'm using animals in a soulless context.

> > Does 'Rei' move because her subconscious mind thinks she has
> > a 'soul' inside of her?  Even if the soul is not her own?  Could the
> >'soul' she have, be just another type of 'Dummy Plug'?  One that's
> >designed for a Human sized body?
>
> What is the mind without the soul in the Eva Universe? The mind
> certainly doesn't belong to the brain. Shinji loses physical form
> completely, he no longer has a brain, but he still has his "mind".

*Nods*
It certainly looks like in the NGE universe the mind and soul are more or
less the same thing or at least inseparable and having very little to do
with the brain or even the body beyond a host to move around in and
interact with the environment.

> > The system of Dummy plug based on Rei's digitised personality,
> >  is a refined version of the situation between an EVA & its pilot...
> > BUT! Rei herself is just another form of Dummy Plug, one that
> >  has the memory of an artificial soul loaded into her living body,
> > rather than the data of a living body loaded into the Hard Disk
> > drives of the Dummy Plug unit.
>
> She is the vessel for Lilith's soul. The Dummy Plugs have no souls
> because it is impossible to digitise a soul. That is the major, very
> important difference between the two.

And a big problem that NERV spends a lot of time trying to work around.

> I don't think it indicates that they had any "part" of a soul at all.
Rei
> only has one soul, that of Lilith's and it is passed from one clone to
> the next when the previous one dies. Ritsuko states absolutely that
> the other clones in the take have no souls. I think that their reaction
> to Shinji's is sort of like a body still moving even after it's head has
> been cut off, it isn't indicative of a soul, or of awareness.

*Nods*

> > So, IF a soul can be shared between different beings, as it was
> > with Unit 2 & Asuka's mom - could that also explain the reaction
> > of the Tank Clones, Unit 0 & Rei's personality?

Even if you could use a partial soul theory it would then follow that the
clones, if they had partial souls, would travel the path of Asuka's mother
and go insane thus becoming useless to NERV.

> I don't think a soul can be _shared_ as such, but I do believe that
> it can be "imprinted". Kyouko's soul was imprinted into Eva-02,
> yet she still retained her soul herself. Different theory, similar
> end result.

The result of loosing ones soul and being left only with a husk and a
memory of a personality that slowly deteriorates?

> I think that Rei-001 was mentally unstable due to her soul
> being "imprinted" into Eva-00, similar to how Kyouko
> because mentally unstable after her soul was put into Eva-02.

I think that Rei was mentally unstable because she was not used to the
body that she found herself in.

> Though there isn't anything that directly contradicts it, I really don't
> like the idea of "parts" of the soul. My impression of "The Soul"
> has always had an atomicity about it. You can't split a soul,
> or break it apart, you can't have a "bit" of a soul. That is just
> my opinion though, based mostly on the fact that whenever souls
> are mentioned in Eva it is always "The Soul", they never mention
> "part of the soul".

I view the soul as a focal point of light that radiates it's
"personality." The light allows interaction with the soul and the core can
be looked at as a photosensitive item that can either take an imprint or
host the focus itself. We really have found nothing in NGE to suggest that
souls can be split.

Thanks for taking the lead in this one Michael.
--
Kind regards
Disaster
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