Kevin Gowen wrote:
> Ron Hitler Barrassi wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> Kevin Gowen wrote:
>>
>>> Ron Hitler Barrassi wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> necoandjeff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ron Hitler Barrassi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> necoandjeff wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ron Hitler Barrassi wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nice try but I didn't say "200kg of mass".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, but it would have been better if you did.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No. It's 200kg of force not mass. This force comes from
>>>>>>>> accleration. Newton's First?  F=ma.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey Brett. Even Kevin's little poodle understands that you have
>>>>>>> consistently been talking about mass as if it were a force. Mass is
>>>>>>> measured in kilograms buddy., acceleration is measured in meters per
>>>>>>> second squared, and force is measured in Newtons (not,
>>>>>>> unfortunately, Einsteins, though we may understand if you were
>>>>>>> confused by this.) A Newton is, surprisingly enough, equal to the
>>>>>>> force required to accelerate 1 kilogram, one meter per second
>>>>>>> squared, as suggested by F=ma. It's good of you to throw out that
>>>>>>> equation 3 or 4 times in the same thread, but you might want to take
>>>>>>> the time to understand it first. Arf, arf!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> g=1
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That was a beautiful butsurigaku non-sequitor, Brett. 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's not a non-sequitor if you understand what g is. And know it's 
>>>> value.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes. For some reason, you think g=1. I have no idea what you think g 
>>> is, though.
>>>
>>>> It's also not a non-sequitor if you know that multiplication by a 
>>>> constant is.
>>>>
>>>> It's not a non-sequitor if you know that force is often expressed in 
>>>> kilograms (or tonnes). More accurately, kilogram-force or kilopond 
>>>> but more commonly just kilogram. If it's good enough for Dassault 
>>>> Mirage, it's good enough for me.
>>>> http://www.sengpielaudio.com/ConvForce.htm
>>>>
>>>> It's not a non-sequitor if you know that multiplying a scalar by a 
>>>> vector gives you a vector.
>>>> "You are pressing down with 100kg". "Down" is a vector.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Down" has no magnitude therefore "down" is not a vector.
>>
>>
>>
>> You probably also think 0 is not a scalar.
> 
> 
> Er, ok. I have no idea why you think "down" is a vector.

A zero length vector. Try keeping up.

> 
>> Below you wrote F= 978.38 newtons. F is a vector where is the direction?
> 
> 
> 978.38 newtons in the direction of gravity's pull, or pushing up against 
> the chair. Pick whichever you prefer. However, there is also a force of 
> -978.38 newtons. You might notice this because you are not accelerating 
> at the rate of 9.8 m/s^2.

and you think the chair is creating this.


> 
>>>> It's only a non-sequitor if you want to distract from the fact that 
>>>> 5yen is inventing magical vectors to satisfy a highschool level 
>>>> mis-understanding of classical physics. Much like your highschool 
>>>> mis-understanding of fluid dynamics.
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't matter in this example anyway because mass *is* force. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No, mass is not force.
>>
>>
>>
>> You stopped reading too soon.
>>
>>>
>>>> Gravity is the property of mass and can be defined completely 
>>>> without any other reference. 
> 
> 
> Yes, gravity is a property of mass. This is quite a different thing from 
> saying "mass is force".

I refer you to General Relativity.


> 
>>>> The acceleration of gravity is also completely irrelevant. The force 
>>>> exterted between our 100kg 5yen and earth is derived by this formula
>>>> F=6.67x10^-11 * m1 * m2 / r^2
>>>> where m1=100,000 and m2 is the mass of the earth (in grams), r is 
>>>> distance. As you can see chairs have nothing to do with it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually, in that equation, the masses for "m" are in kilograms. I'll 
>>> show you how it works.
>>>
>>> Remember when I said that gravity's pulls with a force of 980 newtons 
>>> on a person with a mass of 100 kg?
>>>
>>> F = (6.67e-11)(100)(5.97e24)/(6.38e6)^2
>>>
>>> F = 3.982e16/4.07e13
>>>
>>> F= 978.38 newtons
>>
>>
>>
>> Very good. 
> 
> 
> A shame that you thought m1 and m2 were in grams.
> 
>> How is that expressed as a force vector? Now you need to read Newton's 
>> law of gravity to apply that to get past your highschool physics. Here 
>> is a good quote:
>>
>> "Certainly gravity is a force which exists between the Earth and the 
>> objects which are near it. As you stand upon the Earth, you experience 
>> this force. We have become accustomed to calling it the force of 
>> gravity and have even represented it by the symbol Fgrav. Most 
>> students of physics progress at least to this level of sophistication 
>> concerning the notion of gravity."
>>
>> Gowen seems to have got to that stage, now he just needs to try to 
>> work out what a chair has got to do with the attraction of earth and him. 
> 
> 
> I never said a chair had anything to do with it. I simply said that the 
> chair a person at rest is sitting upon exerts a force equal and opposite 
> to that of gravity.

But you can't explain where that force comes from or why it 
suddenly appears and disappears as needed, other than quoting 
Newtons 3rd. Of course you now realise that it is the mutal 
attraction of earth and you, but you can't bring yourself to say 
it. Shame I can't introduce tensors to describe the gravity 
properly, you need more time at mathematics for that.