"Scott Reynolds" <sar@gol.com> wrote in message

> And where would the effects of anti-Japan government propaganda rate?
> Down around No. 13 or 14 perhaps?

They don't rate as causes but as effects, and means to reach the objectives
of each propagandist party (South-Koreans having different objectives that
Chinese).

> > I don't think the Japanese particularly "supported" US postwar policy,
but
> > they was de facto on the US side, while other countries were in the
> > communist block.
>
> I was speaking of the Japanese government, not the people.

I don't think that was the Japanese government supporting the US policy, but
US  supporting  the Japanese post-war regime (and economy), as part of their
international policy. And I think the reason was the anti-communism (and the
fear Japan would change of regime and become communist too) , much much more
than the fear of a come back of Japanese war-time-style nationalism and
colonialism.  The situation has evoluted, as now a Koizumi can go on his own
and have a few beers with Kim-jong-il.
I'm not doing anybody's trial, but just remembering to Ernest that if there
was one country that had not interest to see Japan and China quickly
reconciliate, apologize and kiss on both cheeks, that was the US.

> > There was the Cold War. If Japanese people have not had the
> > same friendly relations with China that West-
> > Germans have had with us in France since the late 40's , it is mostly
> > because that was "physically" impossible for so many years. USSR and the
US
> > of then
> > wouldn't have let the Chinese and Japanese open their borders to trade,
> > culture and tourism as they are doing now.
>
> This is a matter of degree, surely?

If you want to tell it that way.

> There was a lot of contact between China and Japan even before the end of
the cold war.

Yeah, the degree of contact China-Japan till the 80's was at best the degree
of contact there exist now between North-Korea and Japan. That can be
considered "a lot", as that has been less. While, the degree of contact
between France and West Germany from 1947 was the degree of contact there
exist now between New-York and New-Jersey.
Have you heard the stories of the Japanese/Chinese families that were split
between both countries after war ? I have met such people, and they haven't
been able to retake contact till the late 80's. I don't know if there exist
studies giving statistical data about that, but I have read that tens of
thousands of people have not yet (or never as that's too late) rejoined
their relatives.

> Also, I do not
> think it is correct to say that the Soviet Union was keeping China and
> Japan apart.

Chinese communism was linked to USSR, like Japan was linked to the US.
Without the US and USSR and their political antagonism, Japan and China
wouldn't have been in positions of enemies at the occasion of Korean and
Vietnamese conflicts.

> >>I'm not claiming it is not a factor at all, mind you. But a significant
> >>factor? You think the Chinese soccer fans who booed the Japan team in
> >>Nanjing recently were pissed off about Koizumi's support for Bush?
> >
> > It's very likely they were.
>
> Do you really believe this, or are you just typing the first words that
> pop into your head?

That seems to be what you're doing.

> So expressions of indignation about the Sino-Japanese war are just a
> pretext for blowing off steam about anger at Koizumi's support for Bush?

Can you read :

> > But I don't think it is the reason that makes nationalist extremists
become
> > hooligans,

They *were* pissed off ,  is the past. Don't imagine the Chinese or anybody
*has been*  pissed off till now  that the Japanese (and not Koizumi himself)
supported the US (and certainly not "Bush alone") in their "Iraki" position
against China, etc at the UN.

I think the level of nippon-bashing in most places in Asia is very low
(lower to the level there was in the US in the Bubble times) and has become
the exclusivity of small extremist lobbies.
IMHO, when the Chinese government say they are not satisfied with Japanese
textbooks, etc, that's not because they care...but it's because now they
also have to campaign and get the votes of their hooligan lobby. They can no
longer just hang all those that shout too loud. It's like when Koizumi goes
to Yasukuni or Bush/Kerry  to pray 5 minutes with Christian fanatics, or
Chirac doing both + a mosquee +a synagogue+ the PSG hooligan-club  in the
same day, I don't believe they actually care about religion (or
soccer)...but they count the votes.

CC