John Yamamoto-Wilson wrote:
> I wrote:
>
>>> Kevin's wrong. The world isn't governed by notions of fair play,
>>> like
>>> a kind of cricket match with God as umpire (actually even cricket
>>> doesn't have much to do with fair play these days). Shit happens.
>>> Kids can get born HIV positive, able-bodied men can step on
>>> landmines, and people can end up destitute at the end of a
>>> lifetime's hard work. *Not* their fault.
>
> Kevin commented:
>
>> We were talking about the wealth of individuals, not whether or not
>> one is born with a given disease.
>
> Yawn (well, it is getting late!). I see the analogy doesn't - have I
> got my colloquialism right? - *jibe* with you.

Yes, it does not. Given the current state of medical technology, a person
born with AIDS is guaranteed to have AIDS until the day he dies, a death
that will most likely be a result of AIDS-related complication. A person
born into poverty is not guaranteed to live in povery until the day he dies.
By the same token, a person born into wealth is not guaranteed to be wealthy
until the day he dies.

> So, OK, talking about
> the wealth of individuals, what gives here? The money I don't have -
> it's *my* fault I don't have it?

Yes, if "fault" is the word you want to use.

> And a kid born into a family so poor
> he dies of diarrhoea - the money his family doesn't have is his
> fault?

I never said that. It's his parents' fault.

> And the fact that you're not so rich you can pay servants to
> reply to postings in this newsgroup (or alternatively, pay them to do
> everything else, while you concentrate all your energies on posting
> here) - the money you don't have is your fault?

I suppose. The better way to say it is that the money I do have is the
result of my actions.

>> I have never sneered at anyone who was born with AIDS or stepped on a
>> landmine, or even people born with AIDS who then stepped on a
>> landmine.
>
> Yes, you only sneer at those who end up with no means of support at
> the end of their lives.

I don't sneer at them. I think that their poor choices are lamentable.

> Suppose the reason they ended up without
> means of support was because they had contracted AIDS or stepped on a
> landmine?

Does getting AIDS or stepping on a landmine mean that one can no longer
work?

>>> Think it can't happen? Live a little more. If even a pale shadow of
>>> that doesn't fall on you, hey, fatcat, bully for you. And bully for
>>> all your "it's their fault" sneering. And if it does...
>>>
>>> Well, if it does, maybe, you'll think again. Unfortunately, you
>>> won't be in quite the same kind of position to *influence* things
>>> as if it hadn't.
>>
>> It would be my fault for not filing an insurance claim.
>
> Sigh! I find myself kind of hoping life teaches you a few lessons.

What lessons would those be?

> Suppose the insurance company in question just happens to have "gone
> bankrupt" (= filed its assets elsewhere) anyway? It's a tricky world!

Suppose. Suppose tomorrow the world blows up. Suppose we could all fly by
flapping our arms.

> But that's not the half of it. Here's what you're saying:
>
> St. Peter: Wotcha, cock! Where you heading for, then?
> Punter: Well, I was hoping to get past the pearly gates into...
> St. Peter: Yeah, yeah, yeah! Where's your P4310/B, then?
> Punter: Sorry?
> St. Peter: Your P4310/B.
> Punter: I'm afraid I...
> St. Peter: Oh, you ain't got one, then?
> Punter: Well. I...
> St. Peter: Come on, wot's your game, cock?
> Punter: No, really, no game! I mean, really, I've lived a good life,
> I've done my best...
> St. Peter: But you an't got a P4310/B, have you?
> Punter: No, that is, I...
> [Gates slam shut.]

Sorry, but I can only read English and Japanese.

> Give me karma, Kevin, tell me people get what's coming to them in
> this life, and I could kind of go along with you. I might not agree
> 100%, but I could go along.

That is exactly what I am saying.

> But tell me an amnesiac

I assume that you have heard of power of attorney?

> (or an
> illiterate, or someone reduced, without knowing or understanding why,
> to sleeping on the street) should file an insurance claim and you
> just provoke my ridicule.

When did I say anything about those people filing an insurance claim?

> My example perhaps gave you a let-out,
> assuming the person in question had had some success before suffering
> a breakdown, but tell me a person should - even if brought up in a
> trailer and never having had any job other than as a cash register in
> the local deli - have even *had* any insurance to claim on, and you
> provoke further ridicule.

When did I ever say that person had insurance? It is very hard for me to
talk about people that you make up.

> Bless your little cotton bedsocks, Kevin, you just don't know how the
> other half (or maybe three-quarters, these days) lives - and I
> suspect you could care less!

Actually, I could not care less.

-- 
Kevin Gowen