necoandjeff wrote:

> Eric Takabayashi wrote:
>
> > The only reason I bring up atheism is because Japanese people claim
> > to be something else, while perhaps explicitly claiming to believe in
> > nothing.
>
> This is the kind of statement that drives me crazy. Who are you to say they
> believe in nothing?

Someone who explicitly asked, and may get explicit answers.

> Many of them believe that they believe in something and that is enough for
> them.

Unless they claim not to.

> Just because what they do believe in

If they believe.

> doesn't provide some explicitly laid out system of morals (the notion that
> morals
> derive from religion is a common misperception, but so be it), just because
> their belief system doesn't require them to be a part of some
> well-organized, well-funded religious organization, just because theirs
> isn't a proselytizing religion that is hell-bent on converting every last
> soul that would otherwise be condemned to eternal damnation?

How is your beef with "religious" people relevant to me? If I were "religious",
and perhaps you mean like a Christian, I'd denounce it all as idolatry and the
work of Satan, and that they are all going to Hell and in need of salvation.

> I think many Japanese are quite sincere when they stand in front of the coin
> box, yank
> the chord, clap twice and pray.

Sincere in what, if they explicitly claim not to know or believe?

> What more do you want from them?

IF they claim to be Buddhist or Shintoist, for example, to know something about
what they are doing or why, for example. Buddhists may claim to believe in some
sort of afterlife or a system of reward or punishment. Perhaps they should find
out what to do about it to get the desired result. While they may not believe
in an afterlife or a system of reward or punishment, Shintoists might simply
find the background of their beliefs interesting, if they knew something or
more about it. If they then developed in interest in their claimed religion,
they might even be inspired to be more active and find more enjoyment in it
beyond simply doing what others do, while not actually expecting any results
from a kami they do not actually believe in. It might be helpful, for example,
when being so insistent about going to pray at some famous local or distant
shrine, for example, they try to find out the name of the relevant kami, or
what it is they are supposed to have power over. Why should one expect success
at national entrance examinations, or safety while driving, praying to a local
kami who promotes safe childbirth?

> You don't have to accept their beliefs as being legitimate, only they do.

I fully accept their belief in no God/gods/spirits or indeed nothing they have
not personally seen, touched or experienced is legitimate (never mind me
bringing up the atom or a dead historical figure), if they are so explicit
about it. What I find odd is their claiming to have a religion in spite of such
belief in nothing.

> And nobody has the right to refer to them as atheists

What's your beef with the word atheist? What makes it "evil"?

> just because they don't happen to accept what they believe.

I accept many Japanese don't believe or know about religion or God/god/spirits,
because they may say so themselves. It's just odd they may claim they do have a
religion.

--
Husbands and parents are surprising their loved ones with a record number of
lifts, tucks and implants over the Christmas period. Breast enlargements or
"Christmas bells", as they are known among surgeons, are one of the most
popular operations.

"I am operating from morning to night," said Albert Hofmann, president of the
German Association for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery. "People want to be able to
stand under the Christmas tree with their new car, new living room cabinet and
new breasts."

http://tinyurl.com/3na4e