necoandjeff wrote:

> Eric Takabayashi wrote:
> > "John W." wrote:
> >
> >> For those interested, I found a good bit of info at www.pantheon.org.
> >
> > I like this site. Most people have never even heard of these stories
> > despite considering themselves Shinto.
>
> You say that as if Shintoism is some organized religion with actual
> followers. What do you mean when you say someone considers themselves a
> shintoist?

Religion comes up, and when asked what they are, or what they "believe" in,
they may say "Shinto".

> Do they refer to themselves as 神道教徒 or some such term?

"Shinto".

My wife, as one example of numerous I've known, didn't even know what the word
was (still unclear even with the correct kanji), and thought those gates and
shrines were the same as Buddhism or a Buddhist temple. My wife does not claim
to be Shinto, by the way, despite demanding we visit shrines at the
appropriate times of year. If anything, she claims to be Buddhist. A Buddhist
priest I spoke to last week described Shinto practices (such as clapping) he
followed as part of the assimilation of the foreign Buddhist religion into
Japanese culture.

> Of course not. People follow traditions that, for lack of a better term, are
>
> referred to (especially by Westerners) as Shinto.

It is Japanese authorities, who for example, consider each and every Japanese
person to be Shinto by birth, making Shinto one of the world's major
religions. I wonder if Japanese Americans or Japanese who emigrated are also
to be considered Shinto.

> In any event, the fact
> that such traditions are followed has absolutely nothing to do with the
> stories that are (primarily) found in the Kojiki.

How odd then, that despite not having a holy text like the Bible, it is
claimed Shinto beliefs are based on such collections of stories.

> Besides, the Kojiki was deemphasized following the war because of its
> perceived connection with nationalism.

If Bush, Billy Graham and the Pope distanced themselves from the Bible, and
people who considered themselves believers were in fact woefully ignorant (as
is in fact the case), it wouldn't mean that Christian beliefs or traditions
did not find some basis in them.

> The only Japanese who are generally familiar with such stories
> nowadays are people with some scholarly interest in the topic.

Still irrelevant if they call themselves Shinto yet know little or nothing. As
relevant as people who claim to be Christian and are ignorant of the Bible or
the language, culture and history of the place and time.

> I'm not even sure if the right-wingers pay much attention to them.

As a matter of fact, the nearest I know to one know, a local company owner who
explicitly claims that Japanese are "pure", that all Japanese are directly
descended from the Emperor and thus Amaterasu Omikami, and thus are all gods
themselves, is not only NOT acquainted with the ancient stories as I described
them from the website, but says that his Amaterasu who is somehow god of all,
has nothing to do with that Amaterasu or those gods and that heaven which came
earlier.

I guess the beliefs of ultranationalists must be a religion in itself, like
some offshoots of Judaism or Christianity.

--
 "I'm on top of the world right now, because everyone's going to know that I
can shove more than three burgers in my mouth!"