Brett Robson wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 20:02:44 +0900, Eric Takabayashi  ...
> >
> >Brett Robson wrote:
> >
> >>>And I don't know why you claim it would take six carriers or a force to rival
> >> >the US
> >> >Navy's to do it. It is not what many other energy dependent nations require.
> >>
> >>Other energy dependent nations have sold their souls to the US, or don't have to
> >>ship their oil half way across the world through notoriously dangerous waters.
> >
> >So why is either selling one's soul to the US or having a force that can "rival"
> >the
> >US Navy to protect the energy supply going through "notoriously dangerous"
> >waters the
> >only ways you envision? Among other things, Japan could buy oil from Russia
>
> How does the oil get from Russia to Japan? A very long hose?

Tankers, which aren't being sunk by hostile forces.

> >Argentina like the US did.
>
> Check that one. Right continent, wrong country. That country that starts with C,
> is on the other side of the Pananma Canal and Pacific so they would be at the
> mercy of the Panama Hat Company. Also they only have light oil suitable for
> gasoline, and the US has got it all.
>
> > They could also look for other sources of energy, use
> >less, or use lesser defensive measures like when they safely transported nuclear
> >fuel
> >or MOX.
>
> Which is what they have been doing.

And which is something they could keep doing if not reliant on the US.

> >>>Japan already has decided to build one or two helicopter carriers, deciding to
> >> >call them destroyers, claiming they are not offensive.
> >>
> >>What is the range of a helicopter? What offensive weapons do naval helicopters
> >>have? Torpedeos. Naval helicopters have 3 roles, anti sub, recon, and search and
> >> rescue.
> >
> >Helicopters can reach foreign territory or foreign ships while carrying arms
> >from a
> >"destroyer", but that is irrelevant,
>
> specifically what arms? A Sea Hawk has a range of 600km and flies at a very
> unimpressive 180 knots and is armed with a single 7.62mm machine gun and
> torpedos. Not a very scary weapons platform.

So use a helicopter with rockets and missiles or carrying personnel. And still
offensive.

> > as are Koizumi's increasing excuses over why the
> >Iraq decision among other SJDF actions, are not a violation of Article 9. What
> >makes
> >them "naval" helicopters only, with torpedoes only, or such "non offensive"
> >roles
> >only? Because they are flown from a "destroyer" based at sea?
>
> Because they are anti submarine. Anti submarine is a defensive operation.

So use army helicopters.

> >> > As not offensive as having one of
> >> > the more modern armed forces on the planet and one of the world's largest
> >> > military budgets.
> >>
> >> Which for instance has no landing craft.
> >
> >Japanese ships are landing craft.
>
> You are making up stuff. Japan has no landing craft.
> this is a landing craft
> http://www.navy.gov.au/ships/brunei/gallery/gallery1.htm

I know.

Why do you limit movement of personnel, transport and arms to such ships? Japan has
done without for years, and will continue to do so as when they send personnel and
arms to the Middle East yet again.

> >> This Army ain't going nowhere.
> >
> >The same nowhere that includes the Middle East halfway around the world, where
> >Japan
> >has sent Japanese personnel or evacuated Japanese citizens from before by air
> >and
> >sea, using SDF and commercial transport?
>
> so what? A 747 full of SDF personnel is not a scary propostion.

Someone like you could say the same of many of the world's national armed forces, or
about North Korea firing Silkworm missiles into the sea. At least other countries
admit they have a military.

So try JAL's fleet, and Japan's commercial shipping fleet, full of SDF personnel and
equipment.

We are not talking about how scary they are or even how effective they are, because
they are not going to beat China or North Korea; we are talking about how the JSDF
and its capabilities are not limited to Japan, as they have already proven.

> >> The airforce has no refuelling aircraft -
> >
> >Easily remedied.
>
> yes of course, and Australia could build nuclear weapons. It easy when you make
> up stuff up.

You mean, Australia can't? Japan can.

Claiming Japan is not in violation of Article 9 as Japan has for years is "making
stuff up".

> >> they would struggle to lob anything bigger than grenades at Nth Korea.
> >
> >Japanese rockets would make nifty missiles, as rockets have always been.
>
> You mean the H2A Anti Submarine Rocket? Very expensive and not very accurate.

You can say the same of American missile defense system development, among other
things.

And what have North Korean rockets and nuclear arms done in war while Japanese wring
their hands?

> > Japanese do
> >not see the irony of criticizing North Korea's missile or rocket programs while
> >trying to improve their own.
>
> I don't think it would be possible to hit Korea with an H2A, not even the ones
> that go straight up.

Why not? And why limit any of Japan's offensive capabilities to Korea?

> >Are you admitting that Japan can attack a neighboring country?
>
> Yes, with 500kg bombs dropped from a F15 or F4; the 5inch (?) gun on their
> destroyers; or a helicopter got strafe Nth Korea with it 7.62mm gun. All of
> which would get the shit blown out of them.

But are they offensive?

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Man Chops Off Testicle in Dispute with Wife

Mon Dec 22, 2003; 9:59 AM ET

NAIROBI (Reuters) - A Kenyan man chopped off one of his testicles in a row with his
wife and then walked naked to a police station to report the incident, police said on
Monday.