mtfester@netscape.net wrote:

> Eric Takabayashi <etakajp@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
> > mtfester@netscape.net wrote:
>
> >> >> Could you define this a bit more tightly?
> >>
> >> > You see how Japanese can't stop talking about North Korea, and are so (relatively) demanding
> >> > over the issue? You see the difference in progress made on resolution? That is what happens when
> >> > Japanese actually know and care about an issue.
>
> >> Right. Hardly surprising that the issue of an unstable nuclear power within
> >> spitting distance of them,
>
> > That is not the issue to the Japanese, the fate of 13 abductees and their children is.
>
> OK, I guess NHK is reporting it to me all wrong...

No, perhaps you are watching them wrong. Perhaps you don't see how bringing "back" the children to Japan
is a precondition to normalization talks. For the US and others, of course the nuclear issue is the
precondition.

> >> who's made threats to turn a major city into
> >> "a sea of fire" takes precedence over something that happened 60-odd years
> >> ago, IMO?
>
> > The only reason time passed without resolution, is because the Japanese did not do anything about it
> > then.
>
> OK, what do you suggest  they do? Declare war?

Japan should have resolved the war issue then, and I do not mean San Francisco Peace Treaty that they
always use to avoid taking responsibility, and Japan would not have the war era historical problems they
have today.

> >> >> It's not like Ienaga's book
> >> >> didn't sell well in Japan in the 60s, after all.
>
> >> > So why are Japanese still surprised en masse 30 years later?
> >>
> >> I dunno. Why hadn't YOU heard of it?
>
> > I do know Japanese are surprised even now.
>
> Which wasn't my question.
>
> The was out for decades, and highly controversial.

And Japanese still don't know.

> Being controversial, it generated a lot of publicity.

So you say. And Japanese still don't know.

> The decades-long lawsuit generated more.
> Asahi Shimbun published first-hand accounts of some of the incidents from
> time-to-time. Yet, you rip the Japanese people for not having heard of
> this; a bit odd, don't you think?

No, because Japanese don't know.

> > Masayuki has kindly found a cite that it was necessary for
> > the Supreme Court to rule in 1998 that the very EXISTENCE of Unit 731 was "accepted" by ACADEMICS.
>
> Actually, I know  of no attempt to deny the existance of the unit by any
> government official agency in the last few decades.

So why was it 1998, when the government made the admission?

> I DO know they wanted to keep it out of school texts,

That could be called a coverup.

> and that Ienaga won his court case when
> the Supreme Court ruled that Monbusho couldn't censor an accepted text
> which contained such descriptions.
>
> >> God knows I've posted enough about it.
>
> > And Japanese still don't know.
>
> Neither do you?

I know. Japanese don't.

> So, is there something wrong with you, or just them?

Japan's unresolved war issues and their apathy and ignorance about them, are a problem about them, not me.

> >> >> Again, I haven't heard of "mass-graves" in Tokyo.
> >>
> >> > They hadn't.
> >>
> >> Nor you, apparently, given what you've posted.
>
> > I am not the one who needs to be told more about Unit 731.
>
> OK, ONE MORE TIME:
>
> WHERE are these mass-graves in Tokyo for the 731 victims?

Why don't you admit you don't know?

> (Not to mention,
> why would they ship the corpses from China to the capitol?)

To study. Also, they were reportedly not all dead.

> >> > So why the widespread surprise?
> >>
> >> Because NK actually ADMITTED it, is my guess.
>
> > No, people are surprised because they found out.
>
> I dunno what to tell you; my wife has a friend from Niigata, and they
> apparently knew about it for some time...

Nice to know your wife's friend represents the Japanese public, the millions who don't know.

> >> > Why is it now and not three decades ago that people are actually
> >> > afraid to travel to the Sea of Japan lest they somehow be abducted, decades after the last known
> >>
> >> Uh, as I've stated, the people in the area had known of it for awhile.
>
> > And what of the other Japanese, you know, the vast majority who live elsewhere?
>
> I can really only speak of Kochi recently, but the people I ran into in
> Tokyo, or at least a few of them, seemed to know.

A few. I am talking about the Japanese public.

> >> > Do these people also know about the thousands of Japanese who accompanied returnees to North
> >> > Korea and their descendants, suffering five decades later, but simply don't care, thus no public
> >> > outcry or government response even a hundredth that of the abduction issue?
>
> >> Hmm, considering I've seen that on NHK, I'd say some of them do.
>
> > I know the Japanese people and government doesn't care about them like the abductees.

I forgot to mention they also don't know. Please give me your own estimate of war era and post war
Japanese in North Korea coverage vs. the almost everyday coverage of the abduction issue for nearly a
year. Just of what I've seen, I doubt it's 1:100.

> >> >> Thousands? Maybe, but they'd be at least 59 by now, and no longer Japanese.
> >>
> >> > What, you don't know about the Japanese in North Korea for five decades either? You put no faith
> >>
> >> I know there are some.
>
> > I know there are thousands, if they are still alive.
>
> And a good number in China as well.

I know. But we are talking about North Korea.

> BTW, you really, really should get ahold of that Asahi compendium.
>
> >> As I said, after 6 generations, they aren't Japanese anymore.
>
> > I am referring to the Japanese trapped in North Korea by the war, or who accompanied Koreans to North
> > Korea after the war, not six generations ago.
>
> Pardon me, I meant 6 decades.

Did you ask them if they considered themselves Japanese or not (regardless of the fact they are still
legally Japanese or not) or if they would not like to return to the country of their or their parents'
birth instead? As you can see, Japanese are returning from China (and a few making it from North Korea)
even now.

> >> Actually, Mr Takabayashi, if you are trying to take action against something,
> >> "why" is VITALLY important.
>
> > Why is it relevant?
>
> Uh, because if you have no idea why  something is happening, most likely
> you are never going to be able to do something about it.

Why would not knowing stop people from ending Japanese ignorance of wartime issues? If Japanese schools
spent more time on it, and the government changed their views and policies, it would be handled.

> >> > The issue is not Germany;
> >>
> >> The issue is things that happened decades ago.
>
> > The only reasons decades have passed is because Japan didn't resolve their issues sooner. Japanese
>
> Decades pass regardless of what we do with them. Natural laws and all that.
>
> Now, what is "resolved" in Germany, that is not in Japan?
>
> Be VERY precise for me, please.

Responsibility for wartime actions.

> >> The cases are quite similar.
>
> > No, they are not. Germany's legal and political stance are quite different from that of Japan.
>
> Explain in detail.

Are you being funny? Japanese are permitted to publicly deny wartime actions and responsibility, as well
as promote wartime or warlike views.

> >> Similarly, I doubt people in Russia are much "offended" by Stalin.
>
> > Yet Japanese continue to whine about how they suffered in the war, or about the nuclear issue today.
> > What a difference.
>
> You don't know too many Germans, do you?

None. But the issue is Japan.

> Ask some of them from the territory that is now Poland...
>
> >> That's not the question; the question was "what would you mean by
> >> resolved?"
>
> > Japan should pay survivors and their families, those responsible punished by courts of law, and the
> > issue should be "explained", similar to what Japanese would like done regarding the abduction issue.
>
> You really should read Shirer's book, Mr Takabayashi...

Is it about Japan?

--
"This is the best book I've ever read! Even though I've only read one, it is by far the best in the
world."

- A 12-year old reader from California, CA USA