>Subject: Re: [Spoilers]The End of Eva Ending vs. The Series Ending
>From: sailracer6@yahoo.com  (Drinian)
>Date: 7/1/2003 9:56 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <2dd50ad9.0307010656.6f6c012e@posting.google.com>
>
>I've removed the spoiler warnings... I would hope that the movies are
>not new news by this point.
>
>takloufer@aol.com (takloufer) wrote in message
>news:<4e10be70.0306301550.64ca6fc7@posting.google.com>...
>
>> The Series Ending:
>> 
>> Unlike the movie, these episodes focus mainly on Shinji's internal
>> thought process.  However, we do get glimpses of the events leading up
>> to the Third Impact(Asuka in her Eva in the bottom of the lake, Misato
>> and Ritzuko bodies).  From what I can tell, about halfway through
>> episode 25 the Third Impact occurs.  All human conscieness joins in a
>> unity, and people from Shinji's life help him contemplate himself, and
>> thus allow him to see himself as having worth...and thus the he and
>> the other people are complemented themselves.  Episode 26 ends with
>> Shinji accepting himself and everyone is happy.  The human race has
>> ascended.  Everyone gets a happy ending.  All problems have been
>> solved.  The End.
>
>And, yet, the ending of 26 does not seem so much to be Shinji's
>acceptance of himself as of the world around him. After all, his
>conclusion, if I remember correctly, is that he *can* live in a world
>which is not perfet -- that is to say, he *can* live in the world as
>it already exists. I always got the impression that Shinji's decision
>at the end of 26 returns the world to "normal." The congratulations
>are in order because Shinji has finally been able to decide the rather
>vague conclusion to keep on living, despite all of the terrible things
>he has incurred and borne witness to.
>

That seems to be a popular theory, but to me it seems to be counter-intuative
to think that Shinji rejects Complementation in the last episode.  What I got
from it was that Complementation occured halfway through episode 25, and at
this point all conscieness is collected and united.  Each one's thought and
memories can be examined by all others.  The boundries between individuals is
now indistinct, which explains how other characters are watching and commenting
on other peoples memories.  I don't think the voices are in Shinji's head, they
are the others in the Complementation. 

Shinji tries to isolate himself away from the other human conscieness and is
trying to hide in a world all to his own.  The other human conscienesses are
communicating with him, and in the end they convinece him to open himself up to
others, and thus he is congradulated into the Complementation.

In episode 26, It doesn't seem like he rejects Complementation, because, in
effect, other people are talking him along to open himself up...why would
they(including Gendo) convince him to reject Complementation?  Shinji's
decision in the end is the result of the others giving him a good "talking to".
 His decision is that he has worth, and can live with the others "here"...and
since at this point all other conscieness is Complemented, the "here" is
refering to the Complementation.  

Also, in the tv ending, it doesn't seem like Shinji is given a choice like he
was given in EoE.  The text at the begining of episode 26 states that
Instumentality occurs, and that there is only enough time to focus on Shinji. 
It is not suggested in the episode that it is up to Shinji to decide whether
Complementation is to be be successful or not.  The only decision Shinji
appears to have in the series is to hide from others in his solitary fantasy
world, or to join with the rest of humanity in the Complementation.  In the
end, he sheds his "porcupine syndrome" and opens himself to others.

And if he did reject and abort Complementation, why would Gendo congradulate
him?  In the end he is seen next to Yui, and appears happy(well, happy for
Gendo)...if Shinji stopped the process, and brought the world back to
normal...Yui would be dead again and Gendo would probably not be a happy
camper.  And if all the people who congradulated him were all in his
head...that doesn't coincide with him accepting "reality"(the real
world/physical earth)... 


>> 
>> End of Evangelion:
>> 
>> The movie fleshes out the details of how the Third Impact occured. 
>> The events in the movie coincide with the series until the very end,
>> when the movie takes a different path.  Unlike the series, Shinji
>> changes his mind and goes back to earth, thus aborting Humanity's
>> Complementation and turning the Earth into a hellhole covered with
>> rei's corpse.  It ends with Shinji on a beach with Asuka...for some
>> reason he tries to strangle her but breaks down into tears...Humanity
>> is dead, save for Shinji and Asuka...Asuka is disgusted.  The End.
>
>Humanity is NOT dead, that is quite clear, as it is stated to Shinji
>that he need not worry; that all beings will find a way to survive in
>the new world he creates. Where they are, and if what we see is
>Shinji's new world, is questionable. We don't even know how much time
>has passed.

That is true, that was said.  The ending still feels desolate and very
different in tone than the tv ending.  Visually, the ending is reminisient of
the end of the movie "The Quiet Earth"

[snip]
>> IMO, EoE was what Anno wanted to do originally for episodes 25 and 26,
>> except he made the movie while he was angry at the fans, so he gave it
>> the "Angry Bitter Ending".  Personally, I like the "Happy
>> Congradulations" ending better, as the EoE ending just left me cold
>> and felt like Anno was just getting back at the Otaku.  I consider the
>> series ending to be more "real" than the movie ending.
>
>Remember what they say about dreams in EoE -- none of this is real by
>any means. Also, EoE / Death and Rebirth are by far the most violent
>parts of the series, so the way they end seems much more the
>inevitable conclusion of the events leading to it. I only wish I had
>an inkling as to the final scene. This much is clear to me: Shinji
>asks Asuka, either a representative of her personality in his mind or
>her Complemented soul itself, to make the decision for him. She
>refuses. Shinji, seeing this, makes the decision to end it all --
>Instrumentality, pre-3rd-Impact humanity, everything, and thus begins
>strangling Asuka, rather symbolically of everything else. But... he
>doesn't go through with it. I would say for the better.
>
>Actually, looking at things that way, it is quite possible to conclude
>that both endings are in fact the same. Shinji at the end refuses to
>kill Asuka: since the 26 ending is in Shinji's head, maybe this is
>what it really looks like. Two perspectives on the same facutal event.
>
I suppose one can make that arguement.  I think this is a debate that will
never really be resolved.  It's similar to Utena, in that two people can watch
an episode and have completely different ideas about what's going on.

[snip]
>> Does anyone else prefer the series ending?
>
>Sort of. If you want to see another possible ending (and I can't
>believe I'm recommending this, but...) try reading the very
>comprehensive fanfic "Garden of Eva" available at
>http://www.animeprime.com . It's a hoot, and quite touching at the
>end, although my personal opinion of the author and his ... sexual
>mores... is somewhat low. Actually, I can't believe I read the whole
>thing, as I was alternately disgusted and interested the entire time.
>

lol...I'll check it out...

>> On a side note: Episodes 25 & 26, and parts of EoE, reminded me of my
>> experiences with the plant Salvia Divinorum.  Especially the second
>> half of episode 26.  I wonder if Anno ever used psychedelic
>> substances?
>
>Don't know, don't want to know, hear no evil, see no evil, speak no
>evil. However, whoever named that plant (which my college roommate
>last year apparently has had experience with) has a sense of humor, as
>I am a former Latin scholar and as far as I can make out "salvia
>divinorum" translates more or less to "medicine of the gods."
>
>

Yeah...it's probably the most intense substance I've ever
encountered..."medicine of the gods" is quite appropriate. :)

-ur pal
-tak L

>Your resident teetotaler,
>Drinian
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