kuri wrote:
> "etaka" <etaka@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > The current head of the Futagoyama sumo stable
> > is "Hanada Koji", not "Takanohana Oyakata" or anything else he has gone
> > by while growing up or during his career.
>
> The sumos tend to start their career under their real name, there is a
> ceremony when they change.

You mean the legal names or other relevant info on their koseki,
Japanese passports, and driver's licenses also change? I can certainly
believe that sumo wrestlers, other professionals and more common people
might use their chosen names on bank accounts or contracts. But
official documents?

> > You also noted how foreigners are told they must inform city hall and
> > immigration of changes to their sex.
>
> I was joking, They just say "any change on line 1 2 ...".

You mean if a foreigner undergoes gender reassignment surgery or other
treatment legally recognized in their own country, they wouldn't really
need to tell the Japanese about it?

The Japanese government recently recognized the right of Japanese who
remove their testes or ovaries to actually be issued new family
registries, that it look like they were born with their current name or
gender, to avoid the kind of discrimination they could be subject to as
at potential employers, with an appearance so unlike suggested by their
old official records.

> > Are the handles we use online also "official" names to you?
>
> No, they are nicknames...but you can use your official name as a nickname
> too.
>
> >Is "kuri" (Roman, all lowercase) the heading on your alien registration
>
> No. That'd be all uppercase, anyway.

I'd say that is suggestive that your interesting choice of kanji is not
your official name. Is "kuri" or the kanji the headings (not helpful
readings or additional info, like when I add my wife's maiden name on
forms to show how it's changed) on your driver's license, health
certificate, or other common forms of requested official ID?

What do you mean when YOU say "official" name?

> > and what
> > your financial institutions use?
>
> Yes, in several places they had not enough space in their computer for the
> reading of  my whole name. I have opened all my accounts under my official
> name, they added the reading.

Banks and post offices all call me "Takabayashi-sama", sounding as if I
were Japanese, too, despite having some undesired katakana rendition of
my names in whatever order, on the passbook.

I mean like Al, who claims his kanji for a foreigner is THE name his
bank knows him as, and what's registered, that he have difficulty
believing it is different for other foreigners. [Unless they are
Chinese or Korean.]

> > You are called "kuri-sama"
>
> Yes, at UJF. At the post-office they used family-name-sama. At UFJ, they'd
> call you Eric-sama in that agency or maybe Eri-sama if the last "kku" was
> trimmed by their computer. I've heard them call other gaijins by their given
> name. I asked them to use my family name since we've not kept the pigs
> together and they refused saying gaijins must have their given name first.
> So now, I read on their badge and call them "Tacchan" if they're called
> Takako, etc. I rarely talk to them.

Now that's what I mean about names, and what I'm trying to get Al to
recognize or admit in their dealings with other foreigners.

The names these officials use are important for me, but I do not raise
the issue with them beyond informing them that the kanji are the proper
ones. If they insist I use katakana or the name last to first in all
caps like in my passport, I quietly do so, so my attitude is not an
issue.

> Kuri is a reading of the beginning of my given name.

I am called "Takabayashi"-sama unbidden, which is my proper family
name, and the way I prefer it. It always seemed insulting to be the
only one present called by my first name on the JET Program (when I did
not specifically ask to be called so) simply because I am a foreigner.
And "Eric-sensei" was an oddity. They should either call me Eric or
Eric-san in a more casual situation, or the equivalent of Mr
Takabayashi in a more formal one, like they normally would with other
people.

> > So why can they have kanji characters and I not,
>
> Because the kanji name is the one written on their passport !!!!

You think Al's made up name is in his passport in kanji for him to be
using his alias the way he is?

> > and some are allowed to use things which are not in fact, their real
> names, as when going by
> > a Japanese alias, as when a Kim becomes a Tanaka?
>
> That you can do too.

As I have been posting, and as you did when talking about Osaka, it is
claimed by Japanese officials it cannot be done.

> As I said, their ARC is not "Tanaka". They ask people
> to call them Tanaka, 90% of people they meet never see their IDs, and others
> prefer "Tanaka". Many Japanese people (school teachers, employers...) ask
> them to get a Japanese alias because they don't want to hear Korean/Chinese
> names in their class or staff, and they want to avoid the rest of the group
> knowing the person is un-Japanese. And not all of Zainichi dare insisting on
> using their *ethnic* names. You know it's a weird country.
>
> > My names also have valid Chinese characters.
>
> Valid where ?

In Japan since Japanese began using them, which is how my family on
both sides got them. Not only were they, like I, born with proper kanji
for their name, it was what they used.

> Are they on your American passport ? If not, they are not
> valid. Registering a hanko doesn't prove anything as you may register
> several ones with different kanji.

Funny it works different for Al. He doesn't get it.

> Your wife and kids "Takabayashi" kanji
> are valid because it's registered on her koseki (?)  and her passport.

The kanji in my wife's passport are her birth name.

But the point is, the Japanese government MADE UP names for my wife and
children, if they insist my kanji are not valid. Otherwise how did they
get the characters? I like the sound of "Abundant Mosquito Forest" or
"Field Hippo's Coconuts" myself.

> If
> you get the US administratioon to give you a passport with your name in
> kanji, you'll be able to use the kanji.

Is Al's passport in kanji? Is yours in katakana?

> >They are Japanese names, in fact, written and
> > read exactly the same as the common Japanese reading. But the "no
> > kanji" rule is not applied so strictly to Chinese or Koreans, just like
> > I wrote.
>
> It's not a "no kanji rule", but "same name as on your passport rule"

The names on yours and Al's passports match the alien registration? I
thought both of you were saying otherwise.

> > I would not be allowed to call myself "Tanaka" at city hall or
> > the licensing division,
>
> They are not either (except if they manage it like Al).

Yes, indeed. How did Al do it? And why can't he believe?