工繊大の塚本です.

# Russ Allbery さんヲチのススメが目的だったのでしたが.

In article <YAS.03Aug18201006@kirk.is.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Yasushi Shinjo <yas@is.tsukuba.ac.jp> writes:
> 具体的に何というグループ、いつ頃の記事ですか？
> news.groups には見つかりませんでした。
> １つか２つ、面白い記事を転載してもらえませんか。

% From: "KalElFan" <KalElFan@scifipi.com>
% Newsgroups: news.groups
% Subject: "Optional" Moderation
% Message-ID: <adB_a.8328$Z03.605162@news20.bellglobal.com>
% Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 21:03:51 -0400

から始まる thread で, 未だ続いているのではないかしらん. この
記事は読む意味は余りないでしょうから, 次のものを御参考までに.

-----<ここから>-----
From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: "Optional" Moderation
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:24:18 -0700
Message-ID: <87n0ecc465.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu>

KalElFan <KalElFan@scifipi.com> writes:

> Yeah, to be clear it's exactly what I'm not talking about.  The concept
> here is that you're a user and you subscribe to moderation, and you
> don't know and don't care how that sausage is made.  You just want the
> crap cleared out, and it is.

This was exactly the problem that NoCeM was designed to solve.  It didn't
catch on in part because implementing this securely proved to be somewhat
difficult, but more importantly because everyone wants to use a system
like this and no one wants to be the moderator.  This is the same problem
that the GroupLens project ran into:  everyone wanted to use the ratings,
but no one wanted to do the work to submit their own ratings.

After having watched a few projects like this start and fail, I don't
think the basic theory is the missing piece.  I think the missing piece is
some way of making the communication between the moderators and the users
very lightweight, simple, easy to understand, and exceptionally easy for
the moderators to generate (ideally, nearly automatic).  That's the place
that really needs a lot of work, and I personally don't have any brilliant
ideas about how to get there.

I think these sorts of systems have difficulty in part because they have a
built-in freeloader problem.  It's a *lot* of work to do the moderation,
lots of users just benefit from it without having to do anything at all,
and it's very difficult to share the work in any fashion that doesn't end
up putting all the burden on a few people who get burned out and quit.
Regular moderation has this problem, and trying to extend that work to a
substantial number of unmoderated groups is far more work than is already
going into the maintenance of the existing moderated groups.  Many of
which, recall, are dead because people burned out on being moderators.

People seem to badly underestimate the amount of work that goes into
moderating a group well enough for the results to be useful.  It's not
like spam filtering.  Usenet has almost no spam in the e-mail sense and
the spam that it does have is fairly easy to control if you want to do so
(there are lots of spam filters for news servers, people who issue
cancels, and so forth).  Usenet has a harder problem, namely off-topic,
inflammatory, or just plain unuseful postings, and these are difficult to
classify, controversial, and require a lot of human work to filter out.
-----<ここまで>-----

 thread の中にはやはり slrn が出てました.

> >  vote (dvote) という研究は Russ Allbery さんの所で行われて
> > いたのでありました.
> 
> 行われていた、何？

 http://vote.stanford.edu/ というのが前世紀の終わりの数年間
(2000年の暮れまで)存在していました. Web に NetNews の記事が
表示されていて, それに賛否の投票をしたり, コメントを付けたり
できるようになっていた訳です.

> どういう結果になりましたか？

実験者の意識が NetNews の方よりも, Web に参加者が有用な link
を持ち寄ったり, 掲示板サイトとして参加者同士会話したりして,
共同体を作り上げる方に向いていたので, NetNews への批評サイト
としては十分に機能しなかったと言えるかも知れません.

ハンドルを記しての投票は参加者の共同体意識を内向きに強くした
が, NetNews の開放性とは背馳する部分があった, というのが私の
総括です.

留学の期限が来て, vote は終了. 会社に戻られて日本で, 共同体
として機能する商用の掲示板サイトを目指して desyo が作られま
したが, 2ch のような活況を呈するには至らず, こちらも終了.

> 結果の報告書はないんんですか？

ああ, 何かそのようなものを皆さん求めておられましたが, あれ,
結局どうなったのでしたか.

# 以上, 記憶力に欠陥のある, outsider からの報告でした.
-- 
塚本千秋@応用数学.高分子学科.繊維学部.京都工芸繊維大学
Tsukamoto, C. : chiaki@ipc.kit.ac.jp